solid point, there. i am used to wick type space heaters....so, smell came to mind.Kerosene stinks if it is not properly vaporized. For instance, if you put it in an oil lamp (with a wick), that will happen. Or if your stove/oven is not properly maintained or operated.
If properly vaporized, good quality kerosene has no smell.
Fumes: yet, if you spill it, it will smell. But it will not explode and it will burn only with difficulty (you can throw a match in a puddle of kerosene and it will not burn). It will also smell if not properly vaporized (typically not enough pre-heating).
Kero heaters can kill you if you operate them without enough fresh air (carbon monoxide poisoning). This applies to ANY open flame heater (kero, gas, wood, coal, ...).
So, in summary, the worst consequence of poor maintenance or poor operation of a kerosene stove is that it smells. For LPG, it is instant death of the operator and anyone else on board.
Which one do you choose?
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safe cooking
i have read a lot of threads about stoves on boats. of course, the usual debate is alcohol or propane.
recently, last month actually, a powerboat at the marina my boat is berthed at caught fire and burned up completely. it was a live aboard. the guy was hurt but he lived. he was lucky. he bought another power boat off of their lean dock and moved into it. the cause? his propane stove.
that was a real piece of reality for me. no propane on my boat!
but, there are safety risks with alcohol, too. the threads i have read make that plain. so, the big question i have is what other options are there?
also, how real is the risk with alcohol?
as i get my boat ready to sail, this will be a choice i am going to have to face. it doesn't have a stove but i will want one for cruising. eating out at every port you stp at is going to be way too costly and you can't always be sure you will be stopping at a port for the night. thanks.
recently, last month actually, a powerboat at the marina my boat is berthed at caught fire and burned up completely. it was a live aboard. the guy was hurt but he lived. he was lucky. he bought another power boat off of their lean dock and moved into it. the cause? his propane stove.
that was a real piece of reality for me. no propane on my boat!
but, there are safety risks with alcohol, too. the threads i have read make that plain. so, the big question i have is what other options are there?
also, how real is the risk with alcohol?
as i get my boat ready to sail, this will be a choice i am going to have to face. it doesn't have a stove but i will want one for cruising. eating out at every port you stp at is going to be way too costly and you can't always be sure you will be stopping at a port for the night. thanks.
81 - 100 of 301 Posts
solid point, there. i am used to wick type space heaters....so, smell came to mind.
check that out. you are pretty close by.I would not consider a gas explosion a minor problem.
The boat in the slip next to me (on the Chesapeake Bay) some time ago discovered a mouse on the boat. It happens.
really? it goes for $10 to $20 a gallon? how long does a gallon last?A used origo stove from Sweden, because a new 2 burner is $250-350. Denatured alcohol stove fuel-$10 to $20 a gallon at hardware stores, quart at walmart. Hard not to spill when filling canisters. You need to see pics of canister.
one gallon goes 12 hours give or take.
That powerboat did not catch fire because of the propane stove. I guarantee you that.
It caught fire because of the inexperienced operator, who failed to properly inspect and maintain their equipment, which just happened to include a stove.
If the same guy lit up a cigarette at a gas station and set it on fire, would you blame the gasoline? Ahuh, I thought so.
IIRC BoatUS has a web article someplace that reported the greatest number of "stove" fires came from those nice safe alcohol stoves, that use a fuel which is pretty famous for leaking and burning with an invisible flame, which then spreads like any other wildfire.
Go to Costco, buy the big boxes of Snickers Bars. No need for cooking or flames onboard any boat at any time, any way.
It caught fire because of the inexperienced operator, who failed to properly inspect and maintain their equipment, which just happened to include a stove.
If the same guy lit up a cigarette at a gas station and set it on fire, would you blame the gasoline? Ahuh, I thought so.
IIRC BoatUS has a web article someplace that reported the greatest number of "stove" fires came from those nice safe alcohol stoves, that use a fuel which is pretty famous for leaking and burning with an invisible flame, which then spreads like any other wildfire.
Go to Costco, buy the big boxes of Snickers Bars. No need for cooking or flames onboard any boat at any time, any way.
you don't have a stove in your car? how on earth do you fix lunch when on road trips?Gee, do you have a stove in your car, I don't! Never have! No, the point there was that DRIVING is more dangerous than having a propane stove on a boat; do you understand that point now?
For crying out loud, talk about missing the point, much!
that what the engine is for to heat up a burrito
"Kerosene stinks if it is not properly vaporized. "
MastUndSchotbruch-
Everyone has a different reason for why their own kerosene doesn't stink. But the bottom line is that some of us can smell the kerostink no matter what quality kerosense (paraffin oil) you are using. No matter how you trim your wicks. No matter how you tune your engines. (Diesel.)
The stuff always burns with an odor, some people simply are unable to detect it.
There are in fact genetic components that explain why some people simply cannot smell, or test, various compounds. Kerostink hasn't been researched, but I'd bet it is just another one of them.
Last time I won a nice bet, everyone said "Oh, those two beers taste exactly a like." Sure, just like Coke and Pepsi.
MastUndSchotbruch-
Everyone has a different reason for why their own kerosene doesn't stink. But the bottom line is that some of us can smell the kerostink no matter what quality kerosense (paraffin oil) you are using. No matter how you trim your wicks. No matter how you tune your engines. (Diesel.)
The stuff always burns with an odor, some people simply are unable to detect it.
There are in fact genetic components that explain why some people simply cannot smell, or test, various compounds. Kerostink hasn't been researched, but I'd bet it is just another one of them.
Last time I won a nice bet, everyone said "Oh, those two beers taste exactly a like." Sure, just like Coke and Pepsi.
If you buy a gallon can, denatured alcohol is generally about $13 or $14 per gallon. However, a five-gallon can (a bit harder to find, but usually available at paint supply and some non-big-box hardware stores) runs $25 to $35, or $5 to $7 per gallon.really? it goes for $10 to $20 a gallon? how long does a gallon last?
BTW, even at the high end of the $/gal range, compared to all the other costs involved when owning a boat, stove fuel is pretty trivial; less than the price of a mediocre bottle of wine per month.
The Origo manual states 6 to 7 hrs per full canister. It takes one quart to fill each canister. My experience is in line with what the manual states. If you don't use your stove much you will find that some alcohol evaporates in time.one gallon goes 12 hours give or take.
Thanks for the tipIf you buy a gallon can, denatured alcohol is generally about $13 or $14 per gallon. However, a five-gallon can (a bit harder to find, but usually available at paint supply and some non-big-box hardware stores) runs $25 to $35, or $5 to $7 per gallon.
thanks for all the input guys. it's been a lot, so far.
i am ruling out pressurized alcohol.
alcohol is pretty expensive. that's a consideration with a non pressurized system although they sound pretty safe.
i get the idea that propane is completely safe when everything goes ok and you dot all your T's and cross all your I's. however, i am a big believer in preparing for when ( notice i didn't say if ) stuff goes wrong. if you follow multihullgirl's link, the first words you will read say propane is the most inherrently dangerous fuel used to cook on boats.
that means, if everything doesn't go perfectly, propane has the greatest liklihood of blowing you out of the water. butane is right up there because it's heavier than air.
to my mind it's kind of like choosing a family plane. they have that carnard, 'wrong way' wing supersonic fighter....what is it? an X 833 or something....it is super maneuverable. and it's perfectly stable in flight as long as it's 18 onboard computers are working. now, if i had the wife and kids ( hypothetical. not married and no kids ) out for a flight and one of those computers goes out, all bets are off. a human can not fly it unaided by computers.
so, my other chice is a piper cub. it may not be as fast as the fancy jet but, it's inherrently safer to fly. which one do you take the wife and kids up in?
stuff goes wrong every day.
that's kind of the way i look at it.
electric in any form is out, for my application. too much juice to run it.
so, i think, so far, i am leaning towards non pressurized alcohol or CNG.
i am ruling out pressurized alcohol.
alcohol is pretty expensive. that's a consideration with a non pressurized system although they sound pretty safe.
i get the idea that propane is completely safe when everything goes ok and you dot all your T's and cross all your I's. however, i am a big believer in preparing for when ( notice i didn't say if ) stuff goes wrong. if you follow multihullgirl's link, the first words you will read say propane is the most inherrently dangerous fuel used to cook on boats.
that means, if everything doesn't go perfectly, propane has the greatest liklihood of blowing you out of the water. butane is right up there because it's heavier than air.
to my mind it's kind of like choosing a family plane. they have that carnard, 'wrong way' wing supersonic fighter....what is it? an X 833 or something....it is super maneuverable. and it's perfectly stable in flight as long as it's 18 onboard computers are working. now, if i had the wife and kids ( hypothetical. not married and no kids ) out for a flight and one of those computers goes out, all bets are off. a human can not fly it unaided by computers.
so, my other chice is a piper cub. it may not be as fast as the fancy jet but, it's inherrently safer to fly. which one do you take the wife and kids up in?
stuff goes wrong every day.
that's kind of the way i look at it.
electric in any form is out, for my application. too much juice to run it.
so, i think, so far, i am leaning towards non pressurized alcohol or CNG.
Oh, I can smell burning kerosene just fine. In fact, it gives me a headache."Kerosene stinks if it is not properly vaporized. "
MastUndSchotbruch-
Everyone has a different reason for why their own kerosene doesn't stink. But the bottom line is that some of us can smell the kerostink no matter what quality kerosense (paraffin oil) you are using. No matter how you trim your wicks. No matter how you tune your engines. (Diesel.)
The stuff always burns with an odor, some people simply are unable to detect it.
There are in fact genetic components that explain why some people simply cannot smell, or test, various compounds. Kerostink hasn't been researched, but I'd bet it is just another one of them.
Last time I won a nice bet, everyone said "Oh, those two beers taste exactly a like." Sure, just like Coke and Pepsi.
BUT: That is if it is burned, not vaporized in a properly functioning pressurized cooker. I have a lamp (the type with a wick) and, just as you are saying, that stinks whether the wick is trimmed well or not. Much worse for a poorly trimmed wick, when it soots.
But you don't seem to understand that the chemistry is different with a pressurized stove that transforms the liquid fuel into a gas, using a heated generator. It is this gas which is then burned, and that process is odorless.
If you get the little neoprene gaskets, and remember to use them, the evaporation is cut way down.The Origo manual states 6 to 7 hrs per full canister. It takes one quart to fill each canister. My experience is in line with what the manual states. If you don't use your stove much you will find that some alcohol evaporates in time.
A safe diesel stove has not been mentioned. The Wallas diesel cooktop will cook totally odorless as well as provide thermostatically controlled heat. No exposed flame. There is a kerosene single burner and the 2 burners are diesel. They use very little fuel and are push button start. The electrical draw is minimal. With the lid up you can cook. With the lid down they heat the boat.
2
another option appears. very little fuel. minimal electric draw. multi purpose. safe. i will have to check that one out, too.A safe diesel stove has not been mentioned. The Wallas diesel cooktop will cook totally odorless as well as provide thermostatically controlled heat. No exposed flame. There is a kerosene single burner and the 2 burners are diesel. They use very little fuel and are push button start. The electrical draw is minimal. With the lid up you can cook. With the lid down they heat the boat.
I seriously considered installing one of those before I got my Origo. They have the added advantage that their combustion products are exhausted out of the boat; no fumes, no smells, no water vapor. Nice dry heat. I ultimately decided that the use I would get out of it as a cabin heater wouldn't really be worth the expense. However, if I ever move north......A safe diesel stove has not been mentioned. The Wallas diesel cooktop will cook totally odorless as well as provide thermostatically controlled heat. No exposed flame. There is a kerosene single burner and the 2 burners are diesel. They use very little fuel and are push button start. The electrical draw is minimal. With the lid up you can cook. With the lid down they heat the boat.
...
the wallas cook top is a great option, if i had that kind of money. can you find those used?
over 2k for a new wallas set up. around 300 for a new origo. big difference. although the wallas has some serious benefits, incuding boat heat, the price is out of my range unless i found a good used set up.
cookmate sells an origo knock off for 230. single burner for 176.
over 2k for a new wallas set up. around 300 for a new origo. big difference. although the wallas has some serious benefits, incuding boat heat, the price is out of my range unless i found a good used set up.
cookmate sells an origo knock off for 230. single burner for 176.
Maybe but not very likely....can you find those used?
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/130737-safe-cooking-new-post.html
here is an interesting GOB article. getting ready to read it now.
http://duckworksmagazine.com/12/howto/stoves/index.html
one from duckworks. not very applicable to my situation but interesting.
here is an interesting GOB article. getting ready to read it now.
http://duckworksmagazine.com/12/howto/stoves/index.html
one from duckworks. not very applicable to my situation but interesting.
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