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safe cooking

24070 Views 300 Replies 39 Participants Last post by hellosailor, Apr 6, 2014

captain jack

Discussion Starter · Mar 30, 2014

i have read a lot of threads about stoves on boats. of course, the usual debate is alcohol or propane.

recently, last month actually, a powerboat at the marina my boat is berthed at caught fire and burned up completely. it was a live aboard. the guy was hurt but he lived. he was lucky. he bought another power boat off of their lean dock and moved into it. the cause? his propane stove.

that was a real piece of reality for me. no propane on my boat!

but, there are safety risks with alcohol, too. the threads i have read make that plain. so, the big question i have is what other options are there?

also, how real is the risk with alcohol?

as i get my boat ready to sail, this will be a choice i am going to have to face. it doesn't have a stove but i will want one for cruising. eating out at every port you stp at is going to be way too costly and you can't always be sure you will be stopping at a port for the night. thanks.

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captain jack

Discussion Starter · #101 · Mar 30, 2014 (Edited)

after reading farther into it, CNG doesn't sound that much safer than propane. after reading all of the posts and everything i have found on the web, i am no closer to making a decision. no wonder there has been such contention in this thread.

Puddin'_Tain

· #102 · Mar 31, 2014 (Edited)

captain jack said:
the wallas cook top is a great option, if i had that kind of money. can you find those used?

over 2k for a new wallas set up. around 300 for a new origo. big difference. although the wallas has some serious benefits, incuding boat heat, the price is out of my range unless i found a good used set up.

cookmate sells an origo knock off for 230. single burner for 176.

Check eBay for used Origo stoves. I got my two-burner, flush mounted Origo there for $170, IIRC. It wasn't "like new", but it was in pretty good condition when I got it. Certainly not in any worse shape than the rest of the boat's interior (so, it doesn't look out of place

).

You might also want to consider one of the portable Origo stove/cabin heater units. it puts out just about the same heat as their regular single burner stove and you can store it out of the way when not in use. I put some bolts through the outer case of one and made a little stowable gimbaled stove for heating up stuff while under way. I also use it for cooking in the cockpit on pleasant evenings.

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Puddin'_Tain

· #103 · Mar 31, 2014

captain jack said:
after reading farther into it, CNG doesn't sound that much safer than propane. after reading all of the posts and everything i have found on the web, i am no closer to making a decision. no wonder there has been such contention in this thread.

CNG does have the major advantage that, being lighter than air, it can't settle in the bilge.

captain jack

Discussion Starter · #104 · Mar 31, 2014

Puddin'_Tain said:
CNG does have the major advantage that, being lighter than air, it can't settle in the bilge.

true

mitiempo

· #105 · Mar 31, 2014

Then there is this stove:

Boat Gimbaled Stove Mini Galley

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cthoops

· #106 · Mar 31, 2014

x2 for checking out eBay for used Origo stoves. We bought ours a few weeks ago - 2 burners, virtually brand new - for $200.

Jiminri

· #107 · Mar 31, 2014

mitiempo said:
Then there is this stove:

Boat Gimbaled Stove Mini Galley

Fine in the cockpit, I suppose. But I would not bring that stove into the cabin. I do not trust those cylinders. I have encountered leakers that could not be shut off.

Reactions: 1

mitiempo

· #108 · Mar 31, 2014

Jiminri said:
Fine in the cockpit, I suppose. But I would not bring that stove into the cabin. I do not trust those cylinders. I have encountered leakers that could not be shut off.

It was just another suggestion - or fuel to the fire.

The gimbaled kerosene stoves would be a better choice, like Atom's. Atom Voyages - The Atom Kerosene Stove

Anyway, back to cooking my chicken dinner in my force 10 propane stove.

Reactions: 1

sidney777

· #109 · Mar 31, 2014

Just talking about Safe cooking is not safe! How much are YOU going to cook ? Do you have refrigeration ? Is most of cooking heating canned food, Or fish you catch ?
Is a Coleman type propane or the Gimbaled one burner above enough ?
How about an all portable Stainless two burner propane camping stove ?
You & loved ones gonna bake cookies & cornbread ? How about a Breadmaker ?

christian.hess

· #110 · Mar 31, 2014

Jiminri said:
Fine in the cockpit, I suppose. But I would not bring that stove into the cabin. I do not trust those cylinders. I have encountered leakers that could not be shut off.

we used one(better design in aluminum) stove like this for our coast to coast trip of north america

was awesome td into a bulkhead and did fine even cooking in bad weather

no complaints here and the tanks are easy to find and recyclable in many places

yes the coleman cans if rusted can develop leaks in the valve but if all esle fails just leave it on deck till it stops

peace

1 can for us lasted a month

olson34

· #111 · Mar 31, 2014

These cooking stove discussions seem to produce enough "heat" to brown up some croissants. (sigh...)

One little fact that is missing from several replies is the amount of heat one can get from a burner for any given fuel source. Note that a 5250 BTU burner (in my Origo 6000 range) heats your food the same as any other burner rated for about the same BTU's.
Matters not whether it burns alcohol, Kero, diesel, or electrons.

I have used our Origo Non-Pressurized range for almost 20 years, and before that a propane system for about 9 years.

Prior to that I tried to learn to get along with the Primus kero stove in our prior boat, but was not able to learn enough Swedish swear words to make it behave (?). It was the legendary "Chichester" Model. My abilities were less than legendary, and a liveaboard friend eagerly bought it from me. He loved it!

I have been on a lot of deliveries over the decades with pressure alcohol and would not want it on our boat. Too dangerous.
While ANY fuel and system can be mastered and made safe (except maybe that contrary Primus!), and I do confess to liking a well-maintained LPG system, the simplicity of the Origo is just wonderful.

*Sidebar: there is actually an extremely easy way to refill the canisters. No spills and no hassle.
It's been mentioned on these forums elsewhere, and if someone wants, I can put it in a reply again.

Regards,
Loren

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captain jack

Discussion Starter · #112 · Mar 31, 2014

mitiempo said:
It was just another suggestion - or fuel to the fire. The gimbaled kerosene stoves would be a better choice, like Atom's. Atom Voyages - The Atom Kerosene Stove

Anyway, back to cooking my chicken dinner in my force 10 propane stove.

that's cool. $535 for one burner is a bit much. at that rate, if you add the burners up, i could afford te wallace kero cook top.

captain jack

Discussion Starter · #113 · Mar 31, 2014 (Edited)

sidney777 said:
Just talking about Safe cooking is not safe! How much are YOU going to cook ? Do you have refrigeration ? Is most of cooking heating canned food, Or fish you catch ?
Is a Coleman type propane or the Gimbaled one burner above enough ?
How about an all portable Stainless two burner propane camping stove ?
You & loved ones gonna bake cookies & cornbread ? How about a Breadmaker ?

simple meals would be nice. the icebox should keep stuff for a weekend, especially if the meat starts out frozen. canned stuff for longer periods, i would assume. not much of a fisherman, since i grew up, but i guess that's an option. don't need an oven. just a few burners.

something for dinner or lunch or breakfast for a day on the water, a weekend, a week, a time period living on board. i have the galley space so i'd like to be able to cook real meals, if i like; by which i mean meat and a side dish.

captain jack

Discussion Starter · #114 · Mar 31, 2014

olson34 said:
These cooking stove discussions seem to produce enough "heat" to brown up some croissants. (sigh...)

One little fact that is missing from several replies is the amount of heat one can get from a burner for any given fuel source. Note that a 5250 BTU burner (in my Origo 6000 range) heats your food the same as any other burner rated for about the same BTU's.
Matters not whether it burns alcohol, Kero, diesel, or electrons.

I have used our Origo Non-Pressurized range for almost 20 years, and before that a propane system for about 9 years.

Prior to that I tried to learn to get along with the Primus kero stove in our prior boat, but was not able to learn enough Swedish swear words to make it behave (?). It was the legendary "Chichester" Model. My abilities were less than legendary, and a liveaboard friend eagerly bought it from me. He loved it!

I have been on a lot of deliveries over the decades with pressure alcohol and would not want it on our boat. Too dangerous.
While ANY fuel and system can be mastered and made safe (except maybe that contrary Primus!), and I do confess to liking a well-maintained LPG system, the simplicity of the Origo is just wonderful.

*Sidebar: there is actually an extremely easy way to refill the canisters. No spills and no hassle.
It's been mentioned on these forums elsewhere, and if someone wants, I can put it in a reply again.

Regards,
Loren

yes please. the more i learn the closer i get to deciding that path.

mitiempo

· #115 · Mar 31, 2014

I have owned kerosene (Primus), alcohol, and propane stoves. For me propane wins hands down. I have had a Force 10 3 burner with oven stove since the late 90's and wouldn't give it up. I live aboard and cook at least one meal a day. I use the oven often, like tonight. The times I have cooked in an apartment make me realize how fast and efficient propane is compared to electric which I find very frustrating with its lack of speed and response.

As Christian posted propane is the fuel of the world away from North America - it is plentiful and inexpensive, as well as being one of the cleanest burning fuels without odor.

Any fuel can be dangerous if mis-handled - if not it wouldn't burn. I look at any fuel as safe when used properly, some are just not as nice to use as others.

Reactions: 1

guitarguy56

· #116 · Mar 31, 2014 (Edited)

I sleep very well knowing there are no explosive fumes/gases anywhere in my cabin...

I do have a carbon monoxide alarm and figure it's useful should another boat next to me is out of limits on the gases... my only fear is that while I can sleep at night the boat in the next slip may be a time bomb just awaiting the flip of a switch or automatic start-on of some electrical item to have a bad day for everyone else.

I don't get it... I run a 1500 watt induction stove on 1-2 batteries charging from shore power/small solar panel/outboard motor and I have the Honda 2000 generator... I've never used the Honda generator to use the induction stove as the batteries handle the electrical needs more than what I need... the stove is used but maybe 10-20 minutes at the most to heat up items... even my 700 watt microwave uses inverter power easily without running down the batteries... I think many people are misinformed about the usage of electrical appliances. The induction oven is so efficient I almost have to laugh about it... people should have been using this decades ago... sort of the 'compact fluorescent lights' over 'incandescent bulbs'... no comparison!

Now the induction oven requires a 'pure sine wave' output for it to work... I originally had a 2000 watt unit but have upgraded to the 3000 watt unit as I now have extra power for other items... the inverter is shut off when not needed to avoid draining the batteries which is a small draw anyway.

Who knows the induction oven/inverter it might both be dead when I get up to Seattle to check the boat out this summer.

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hellosailor

· #117 · Mar 31, 2014 (Edited)

Guitarguy, the only problem with an induction stove is that if there's an EMP event, your stove will be broken. (VBG)

More seriously...ask any working chef if they'd replace ALL the burners in their place of business with induction, or any kind of electric. Which is why we sometimes hear people say "Now you're cooking with gas!"

I see I'm not the only one who thinks Forespar have been drinking the wrong Kool-Aide. A 5000BTU burner may be fine for boiling a pint of water, but there's no such thing as an "extra hot" 5000 BTU burner. Portable stoves, camping stoves, gasoline, propane or whatever, are easily found at 11,000 btu and that's where a "normal" stove burner comes in around. FWIW.

If anyone heard the news earlier this month, two small apartment buildings in NYC blew up and were leveled due to a gas leak. One of the survivors was interviewed on the Nooze and said folks had been smelling a strong gas smell for TWO DAYS. But none of them bothered calling the gas company until minutes before the buildings blew up.

That's not a gas explosion, that a Darwin Award Winner.

The gas companies in NYC, like most urban gas companies, usually will have a repair crew out in less than 1/2 hour when someone calls to report a gas smell. Two buildings and multiple lives lost, because everyone in them was too busy? stupid? to make a phone call for two days. (Which the Nooze were, ahem, gracious enough not to point out.)

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guitarguy56

· #118 · Mar 31, 2014 (Edited)

hellosailor said:
Guitarguy, the only problem with an induction stove is that if there's an EMP event, your stove will be broken. (VBG)

More seriously...ask any working chef if they'd replace ALL the burners in their place of business with induction, or any kind of electric. Which is why we sometimes hear people say "Now you're cooking with gas!"

I see I'm not the only one who thinks Forespar have been drinking the wrong Kool-Aide. A 5000BTU burner may be fine for boiling a pint of water, but there's no such thing as an "extra hot" 5000 BTU burner. Portable stoves, camping stoves, gasoline, propane or whatever, are easily found at 11,000 btu and that's where a "normal" stove burner comes in around. FWIW.

If anyone heard the news earlier this month, two small apartment buildings in NYC blew up and were leveled due to a gas leak. One of the survivors was interviews on the Nooze and said folks had been smelling a strong gas smell for TWO DAYS. But none of them bothered calling the gas company until minutes before the buildings blew up.

That's not a gas explosion, that a Darwin Award Winner.

The gas companies in NYC, like most urban gas companies, usually will have a repair crew out in less than 1/2 hour when someone calls to report a gas smell. Two buildings and multiple lives lost, because everyone in them was too busy? stupid? to make a phone call for two days. (Which the Nooze were, ahem, gracious enough not to point out.)

I promise not to cruise in a military zone running EMP testing... the other known EMP blasts would be a nuclear device going off... promise to be far away from that... and if that happened we have far more problems than my induction oven failing.

Many benefits of people switching to the induction units first and foremost the energy savings of these ovens over a comparable electric burner unit, the savings not only to the user but also the convenience, safety factor over electric/gas units, I could go on and on!

No one knows if it was a Darwin Award winner and perhaps innocent people were hurt in this accident... is there a Darwin Award of sailors who blow up their boats as well? :laugher :laugher

christian.hess

· #119 · Mar 31, 2014

yes its often called the bonhead award jajaja

seriously there are many choices...pick your medicine and be happy and safe

I hated induction units when looked at as a chef...but looking at it for the pros, simplicity and the like they are great but do have their faults...

you need really good pans...and they have to be FLAT so sautee pans and sautesses dont really work well

thock expensive copper coated bottoms are almost a must for induction units

in cooking school there were those that loved them(they are great for stews soups etc sinde they dont have hot spots and cook evenly) but for certain things they arent that great

but for a guy on a boat who wants simplicity Im all for it

now being on the hook or cruising I still havent seen a boat use it as a primary stove...

I still think its a lot of battery juice for most cruisers...get some bad weather and no solar panel juice and your out of luck if your out of gas with the genny

and cooking is kind of peacefull on boats and running a genny just to cook isnt my cup of tea

now in a marina with shorepower all good

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hellosailor

· #120 · Mar 31, 2014

Well, it is certainly possible that no one even smelled gas until the single "too late" call. The guy they interviewed certainly could have been trying to set up Con Ed for not responding. Except, no one called until it was too late. (Which is why the gas companies record all their calls, and send trucks out so fast. Way cheaper than paying for explosions.)

Enough gas to level two buildings, usually would mean that everyone in them had a chance to smell it and make a phone call. And I'll bet Mrs. O'Leary had no idea it could be a bad idea to leave her cow with a kerosene lantern, either?

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