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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good evening!

So, I have what is probably a dumb question. When forced to motor (due to a virtual lack of wind) and being hit by 1-2 foot waves more or less abeam, my Hunter 306 rolls quite a bit. Same if not more so when the waves come from anywhere astern.

Is it my imagination, or is rolling reduced when raising the mainsail and keeping it tight and amidship? Does it act as a sort of "air keel" and provide stability?

Thank you!

Nico
 

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Yes it does help.
Its also quite rare to have absolutly zero apparent wind. Even with just 1 knot of apparent wind the sail will hole the boat quite well compared to no wind at all.

Mark
 
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Windseeker
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If you can manage your course to get a little angle on the wind it really helps. Put the traveller higher than you would (even boom a little above centre line) and just get a little air in the sail. Comfort vs speed and comfort can be a big factor - these days sailing is generally meant to be fun!
 

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Captain Obvious
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Not only an air keel, but the main can also be an air rudder
 

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Freedom isn't free
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I motor sail to save fuel, but you are right, sail up while motoring allows you tighter angles to the wind (because apparent wind comes up)... but also settles the rock and roll a lot.

Can cut fuel usage in half too.
 

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Farr 11.6 (Farr 38)
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But flogging a sail can really shorten its life quite quickly. It is the worst thing you can do to a sail.
 

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snake charmer, cat herder
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here in too much or tool ittle windville, i use my jib and mizzen for similar results. and i prevent the one with r'¡the boom so as not to kill my pooor old boat.. when i use main i always prevent it .....usually to 2 points.....no flogging boom.. keep flogging on main to minimum
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thank you all! I came across a similar situation again yesterday, and it really does work wonders. Not 100%, of course, but enough so to obviate the need for too much mopping during and after the trip. :)

Cheers!
 

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We used to fish out of our Coronado 25 in open ocean waters off of San Francisco. Often there was little or no wind but large chop & swell. The boat would roll a lot at trolling speed. We tried putting up the main but it banged around somewhat even with the main sheet tight. IIRC, it helped a small amount, but not enough to matter much. We finally gave up putting the sail up when trolling. When running at hull speed with the sails down,
the boat settled down pretty well and did not roll nearly as much a when trolling.

Perhaps you could do some comparative trial runs with the sails up & own?

Paul T
 

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Paul, yo mean like this? :D Never, ever, flog your sails. The jib never really works while motoring in dead calm. As others said, try moving the traveller all the way over, tighten the vang and perhaps set up a "downhal type preventor to stop the slating. The moment it starts to flog, it's not really helping so take it down.

 

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Paul, yo mean like this? :D Never, ever, flog your sails. The jib never really works while motoring in dead calm. As others said, try moving the traveller all the way over, tighten the vang and perhaps set up a "downhal type preventor to stop the slating. The moment it starts to flog, it's not really helping so take it down.

Ah yes, looks like you are off the Marin coast? We tried moving the traveler all the way over and tightening the main sheet. It didn't "flog" so much but would "flap" somewhat with the roll of the boat. We didn't put it up if there was any wind, too hard to control the boat speed. Didn't put the jib up, & only tried the main a few times, it really didn't do that much to kill the quick roll when it was choppy.

Nice boat & radar, a real luxury, our navigation system was a compass. :D

Paul T
 

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Paul, I thought you might get a kick out seeing the Potato Patch in all of its awesome spender. This was on one of the DH Lightship races where we bobbed around for more than several hours waiting for the wind to fill in. It did, and we had a real sleigh ride on the way back in. We even had a massive round up while flying the kite about six hours later not too far from this location.

Thank you for the complement – We really like the eSystem with its integration of the AIS-Radar-Chartplotter. We consider ourselves fully IFR equipped and transit the Gate in any fog and any hour. A far cry from the old days when all we had was a Realistic brand RDF. Remember those days when KGO and KFRC radio were used for both listening enjoyment and navigation?
 

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Paul, I thought you might get a kick out seeing the Potato Patch in all of its awesome spender. This was on one of the DH Lightship races where we bobbed around for more than several hours waiting for the wind to fill in. It did, and we had a real sleigh ride on the way back in. We even had a massive round up while flying the kite about six hours later not too far from this location.
Oh yes, how I do remember, sounds like you had a scary ride, that is a whole lot of sails trying to drag you under, there were many times when just the stock Coronado 25 sails were way more than I wanted up. When fishing off the sailboat I felt like I had spent the day in an industrial size clothes dryer. We had the boat below, left, in the early 60's. It had flopper stoppers on it, light years better than the sailboat

Thank you for the complement – We really like the eSystem with its integration of the AIS-Radar-Chartplotter. We consider ourselves fully IFR equipped and transit the Gate in any fog and any hour. A far cry from the old days when all we had was a Realistic brand RDF. Remember those days when KGO and KFRC radio were used for both listening enjoyment and navigation?
Sounds like you have the right stuff, fog can be very scary, especially when near the channels. The boat below, left, had a compass & an RDF with a loop that was almost a foot in diameter, that was our navigation "system". There was one of the main AM stations that was about a straight shot through the gate, can't remember which one? I think I listened to the Lone Ranger on KFRC when I was a kid.

In 1981 we sold the sailboat and got the Skipjack 20, right. My Dad made a Heathkit RDF for it, but it spent a lot of the time airborne. :D

Paul T
 

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I think that was KABL. Their transmitter was in the mud flat between Berkeley and Emeryville. KGO was at the mudflat near the Dumbarton Bridge and KFRC on the hill over South San Francisco. Our RDF was notoriously inaccurate and we had to use it on the gimbaled stove in the galley, hence, we could only use strong AM signals. It would reliably put us somewhere near the coast of California, often over water! Our M.O. in those days was to plot an intercept course to the ship channel buoys then head in. When the fog horns on both Angel and the bridge were going off, it was simple to sail a course straight through the Golden Gate Channel. There were only a couple of times where we had a close encounter with a large ship. The most memorable was the USS Enterprise.

Paul, you are dating yourself with the Lone Ranger on KFRC. I listened to it during it's hayday of top 40 play. Don't you remember "Doctor" Don Rose?
 

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I think that was KABL. Their transmitter was in the mud flat between Berkeley and Emeryville. KGO was at the mudflat near the Dumbarton Bridge and KFRC on the hill over South San Francisco. Our RDF was notoriously inaccurate and we had to use it on the gimbaled stove in the galley, hence, we could only use strong AM signals. It would reliably put us somewhere near the coast of California, often over water! Our M.O. in those days was to plot an intercept course to the ship channel buoys then head in. When the fog horns on both Angel and the bridge were going off, it was simple to sail a course straight through the Golden Gate Channel. There were only a couple of times where we had a close encounter with a large ship. The most memorable was the USS Enterprise.
Yes, our experience with RDF on the boats was pretty vague, maybe because they moved around a lot? Worked pretty well at home, however. Ah yes, KABL

"Near the coast"? Very good and about right. We used about the same approach with the light ship, but with no fathometer it was a bit dicey. Or we picked up the beach & slid down Bonita channel. If it is not too windy, it is surprising how far away you can hear a whistle or gong buoy with the engine off. That was mostly what we did when fishing off of Bodega.

Paul, you are dating yourself with the Lone Ranger on KFRC. I listened to it during it's hayday of top 40 play. Don't you remember "Doctor" Don Rose?
KSFO, Don Sherwood? I think Red Ryder was also on KFRC, maybe KGO, who, IIRC, had a killer signal? Well, I am working on my 80th birthday, hope I make it & know it. :D

Paul T
 

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We used to fish out of our Coronado 25 in open ocean waters off of San Francisco. Often there was little or no wind but large chop & swell. The boat would roll a lot at trolling speed. We tried putting up the main but it banged around somewhat even with the main sheet tight. IIRC, it helped a small amount, but not enough to matter much. We finally gave up putting the sail up when trolling. When running at hull speed with the sails down,
the boat settled down pretty well and did not roll nearly as much a when trolling.

Perhaps you could do some comparative trial runs with the sails up & own?

Paul T
Paul,

Without headway, there is no airflow over the sail so it will just "snap" back and forth as the yacht rolls which is hard on the gear and more so the sail. With no headway, a flat riding sail led to one of the quarters is what one needs and, better yet, a Banner Bay "Fin Delta" riding sail. In the old daze, one often saw hand line fishing boats adrift and stabilized by a riding sail off the mouth of SF Bay.

FWIW...
 

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Paul,

Without headway, there is no airflow over the sail so it will just "snap" back and forth as the yacht rolls which is hard on the gear and more so the sail. With no headway, a flat riding sail led to one of the quarters is what one needs and, better yet, a Banner Bay "Fin Delta" riding sail. In the old daze, one often saw hand line fishing boats adrift and stabilized by a riding sail off the mouth of SF Bay.

FWIW...
Right, "Snap" is the right word. We only tried it a few times on the sailboat and gave it up. Some of the other commercial trollers around us used to fly a small, flat, triangular "sail" from their mast to the boom. We had stabilizers on our commercial boat and they worked really well. Some of the crab boats fly one stabilizer when picking up their pots.

This is pretty much how our boat was rigged:

https://www.oregonschoice.com/user-files/g03006.pdf

Paul T
 

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Flying only one stabilizer must leave you with an awful gimp. But that would leave the working side free. Ah ,' frisco fog '75.. Homed in on the sick cow fog horn middle of bridge .One chart ,flattery to San Diego and no local knowledge. Hard to miss America to the east.
 

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Flying only one stabilizer must leave you with an awful gimp. But that would leave the working side free. Ah ,' frisco fog '75.. Homed in on the sick cow fog horn middle of bridge .One chart ,flattery to San Diego and no local knowledge. Hard to miss America to the east.
We always flew 2 stabilizers, one would pull up while the other would dive. They really slowed down the roll action. Right, most crab boats I have seen had their puller mounted about 2/3rds of the way back, right where the stabilizer would be. from what I could see one worked pretty well.

"One chart"? Oh my, get out the magnifying glass.
When necessary, we used to come back down the side of the ship channel. Ships were a constant worry, they move so fast. As with being anywhere, "local knowledge" is critical. I learned about wash rocks when we first started fishing in BC waters, many way off shore. We had nothing similar out of San Francisco, except for the Farallones. :D

Paul T
 
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