What is this "license" of which you speak?

 

Is that like Coast Guard registration in the US?

 

In Canada a boat can be either licensed or registered.
Licensing is a simple process where you send a very short application to Transport Canada, and they assign you a number, which is to be displayed on the bow of your boat.
Registering a boat is more complex, costs money, and you don't get a number. Instead you are registering boat's name and a port of call.
I know that lots of Canadian boats cross Lake Ontario in the summer and go to US on license only.

I'm not sure how Canadian system relates to US.

 

Also licenses are provincial, whereas registration is federal.

I think our license system us closer to the US state decals, our registration more like USCG system.

Sorry, not sure how that will impact your travels outside the US. The Canadian cruisers we know are registered.

 

I'm sure the requirements for international waters are lowest common denominator.

And that many Caribbean jurisdictions are pretty loose as well, long as you have money at hand and don't break the laws they take more seriously.

 

Found this for the Bahamas specifically

> The main benefit of documentation or registration versus numbering (licensing), is that a ‘Ship Mortgage’ can be applied and recorded much more easily to a Documented/Registered vessel than a licensed vessel. In practical terms, this means that lending institutions regard a documented/registered vessel as a more secure form of collateral. In addition, for larger and more expensive boats, it may be easier to obtain bank financing if the boat is documented/registered rather than numbered.

> Another benefit is that the certificate of documentation may make customs entry and clearance easier in foreign ports (ie. the Bahamas). The document is treated as a form of national registration that clearly identifies the nationality and ownership of the vessel.

 

The horse's mouth

Bahamas High Commission
Metropolitan Life Centre
50 O'Connor, Suite 1313
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K1 6L2
Phone: (613) 232.1724
Fax: (613) 232.0097
E-mail:*ottawa-mission@bahighco.com

 

Just risk it what are the chances of getting caught anyways...

 

Thank you for all your input guys.

john61ct

Calling Bahamian Embassy sounds like a great idea. I will call them tomorrow.

I was hoping that someone did go through the process of sailing to the Bahamas on the License only, or know someone who did.

 

You will be OK in the USA and Bahamas.

However beyond that you risk having your boat seized or at best refused entry not allowed to land and given 24 hours to leave.

Do not listen to people who say it is OK to 'wing' it.

EG arriving in Mexico with all the correct documentation except a zarpe can and usually does result in a boat seizure.

Read more here http://www.noonsite.com/Countries/Mexico/Members/sue/R2012-03-26-3

 

....
Read more here http://www.noonsite.com/Countries/Mexico/Members/sue/R2012-03-26-3

I would call that beyond the pale...crooked officials, not the expected or norm.
The lack of zarpe, which is not required between us to mx...was an excuse/justification used by the crooked gov officials.

 

The Bahamas does equally accept either state/provincial registration OR federally registered visiting recreational boats. Just make sure you have the documentation that comes with your license with you.

Suggest that you clear-in with Bahamian customs and immigration in either WestEnd, Bimini, Nassau or Marsh Harbour ... and you'll get an automatic 90 days clearance. If you clear-in to one of the 'minor' entry points (Green Turtle, Spanish Key, Morgans Bluff/Andros etc. etc.) you'll 'usually' only get a 30 days entry; and, then you then you will have to reapply at one of the major entry ports.

https://www.bahamas.com/faq/entering-exiting-policies

 

The advice about 'crooked' officials (anywhere!) is not unwarranted.

The best advice I can give: is to ONLY answer questions asked. Do NOT volunteer answers to questions not asked.

You do not want to be forced nor innocently trapped into a position of 'negotiating' with foreign customs and immigration officials. Do your homework as best as possible - beforehand.

Always be polite, respectful, and keep up a good smile on your face. ;-)

 

Some of the attitudes of non US customs and immigration officials may be payback for the US officials and gov attitudes towards applicants for visas etc, EG the 370 $ non refundable 'filing fee' for a visa extension.

A similar fee request in other countries is called corruption.

 

Not the same at all and I can't see that being their motivation. My experience has been a shakedown for their personal gain, not their government imposing fees (which they also do).

 

I see no evidence of that.

The distinction is whether the money id deposited into a government account, or into the bureaucrat's pocket.

Fees are yes high in the US, largely due to "user pays" principles.

 

born-
You do not want to even think about entering the US without a "cruising permit" and you will have to conact ICE (US Customs & Immigration) to get that in advance of your entry. If they accept your registration (which sounds like it is equivalent to a US state registration, and is not the same as a national "flag" for the boat) then you have no problem. If they don't accept it...these days, sometimes our border folks get cranky and they like to seize things.
Really. Contact ICE, find out for sure, in writing. Border guards rarely have any sense of humor, anywhere in the world these days.

 

FYI...
From Transport Canada's website, reasons to register your boat:

Canadian Register of Vessels
This register applies to vessels of all types and sizes including pleasure and commercial. This type of registration is required for:
• vessels more than 15 gross tonnes used for commercial purposes, including government-owned vessels (if unsure of tonnage, check this explanation of tonnage measurements)
• vessels that require marine mortgages
• if you are planning to travel outside of Canada for extended periods of time
You may also choose to register your pleasure craft in the Canadian Register of Vessels if you wish to have an approved name and port of registry for your vessel or show proof of ownership.

 

Thank you all for your words of wisdom. I really appreciate it.

I called Bahama Embassy 3 days in the row. They answered politely, took details of my inquiry, told me someone would get back to me, but nobody did. I could play this game with them a little longer, but let's try something different.

Assuming that Ontario boat licence is like US decals, did any of you sailed US boat on decals only to the Bahamas?

 

The Bahamas gets over a thousand US boats coming and going daily in season, huge part of their economy.

Not a direct answer, but. . .

 

It will usually take a month of more for the Bahamian officialdom to formally reply to non-emergency requests.

Suggest you place a direct phone call to a major Bahamian entry port (Id recommend Marsh Harbour in the Abacos Islands), and make direct contact with Customs (and then Immigration if you have any immigration questions).

Probably the 'best' way to contact is by FAX and then request a FAX (written/FAX) reply as well as 'verbal'. But again, the Bahamas is quite 'laid back' and even a direct contact may be followed by bureaucratic delay. An official FAX reply will document any 'confirmation or request' and may prevent 'self interpretation' by customs and immigration official(s) in the 'out port' entry locations.

https://www.bahamaslocal.com/showlisting/10757/Bahamas_Customs.html

As stated before, In the Bahamas your (provincial or state) 'sticker' usually needs some form of tangible documentation to prove its validity and time-term of current status.

 

What's the reluctance to register in Canada. Seems less work and concern. Cost?

 

Minnewaska,

We just bought the boat and have number of projects on her.
The reluctance comes from time it takes to process all the forms and the cost. I will likely register the boat next year, but this time I would prefer to avoid this project, if possible.

Thank you all for excellent tips. I will go with US bill of sale, US title transfer and Ontario license only and report how that went when I'm back.

Cheers

 

Ah, b2b?
You aren't going to get a "US title transfer" on that boat. You being a Canadian, not an American, apparently? US federal documentation is reserved for US citizens and US-majority-owned corporations. And most of our states will only issue a state title to a resident, or someone with a postal address in that state. And they'll be enquiring into a variety of taxes, not just sales taxes, when they do that.
You might need to rethink that, and just pay the piper.

 

My apologies if I got the name of my title document wrong.
I am looking at it right now.
It is square as opposed to standard paper format, titled "CERTIFICATION OF TITLE", and shows boat details, previous owner, and buyers name.

 

Yes, but WHO issued it? A US state? A Canadian province? The Bahamas?
If it is a US federal title, there's a nifty heat-sensitive color changing patch on it, to make sure you didn't inkjet print it yourself. (Honest.)

 

Certificate of Title isn't any kind of Canadian thing I know of. Sounds like a seller's receipt maybe. Possibly issued by the yacht broker as proof of purchase.

Proof of purchase is required in combination with a Canadian Federal License (Province of Ontario doesn't issue licenses, however, Federal licenses issued to residents Ontario contain the letters E or ON) as proof of ownership/proof of licensing.

Canadian Federal Registration stands alone as proof of ownership and proof of registration.

At least, that's how I understand it.

 

Sounds like b2b bought the boat from someone who had it registered in the US, then imported it and licensed it in Canada. If so, the old US documents are useless.

The OP is departing in Jan 2018 for the Bahamas. I'm assuming that's not from Canada?! Is this boat still in the US? Is there a Canadian tax thing at play here? I know it costs a fortune to import a boat from the US to Canada.