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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,
Has anyone owned or had experience with a SanJuan 33S? I am looking at an 1981 model in fair shape but I am wondering if there are known issues with them….deck is solid already
Not much information on them on the World Wide Web though
Thanks
 

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Specific to the 33S, no, I can't help you. On the other hand (since no one else has responded so far), I used to own a San Juan 23 and it was a fine little boat. Sturdy, sailed well, and very comfortable for its size. Clark made good boats back in the day.

 

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Designed to be one design racer that was less than 8 foot beam so it could be trailered to different race locations without towing permits. Don’t think they sold many. Only built for a couple of years. Make a fun daysailer but very low resale value cheap to buy, hard so sell
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Specific to the 33S, no, I can't help you. On the other hand (since no one else has responded so far), I used to own a San Juan 23 and it was a fine little boat. Sturdy, sailed well, and very comfortable for its size. Clark made good boats back in the day.

Thanks for taking the time….I had already looked at the sailboat data sight It had good numbers for sure. I was hoping to get a feel for known issues or repeated areas of concern. She’s over forty and I prefer to sail rather that repair as much as possible although I understand the nature of a boat in general. I found this sight and even it calls the 33S “a bit of a mystery”. http://www.sj21class.org/pdf/clark_boat.pdf. Thanks again
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Designed to be one design racer that was less than 8 foot beam so it could be trailered to different race locations without towing permits. Don’t think they sold many. Only built for a couple of years. Make a fun daysailer but very low resale value cheap to buy, hard so sell
👍🏻 Thanks
 

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This was Dave Pedrick's attempt to one up the Tartan 10 after leaving S&S. These were lighter, had shallower draft, a bigger SA/D, were narrower than the Tartan 10 and had less form stability. But additional sail area and light weight only is useful in very light air, if the boat has enough stability to be able to stand up to its sail plan. Despite having a larger ballast ratio, the San Juan would tend to a have a lot less stability, This meant that the San Juan 33s would be faster in light air dead down wind than the Tartan 10, but that the Tartan 10 would be a faster and easier boat to sail in all other conditions. Boats like the 33s would tend to be one trick ponies designed to obsolete design concepts. They were quickly eclipsed first by boats like the Olsen 30's and then by more well rounded designs like the Mumm 30.

Last year I helped a friend rebuilding a San Juan 30 (rotted bulkhead replacement, re-bedding and sealing deck leaks and so on. My friend also rebuilt the engine.) This was a more intimate view of Clark built boats than I had previously had. My sense is that these were simply built, performance oriented build quality boats. There was nothing on the boat that was not there to make it go. The glasswork and interior appointments were sturdy but crudely done. The gelcoat was in really rough shape and the deck cores were badly delaminated/rotted. My friend had been given that boat for free, but putting that boat back together cost pretty much what it was worth and maybe more.

Boats like these are near impossible to resell. If you think that the boat is cheap enough (less than $5K), it absolutely suits your needs, it is in solid condition with good sails and a good engine, you sail in a venue where there is predominantly light winds and flat water, and you will keep the boat long enough (maybe 5-10 years) to be worth messing with, then this might be a reasonable boat to buy. Otherwise there are much nicer built and more rounded boats out there.

Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
This was Dave Pedrick's attempt to one up the Tartan 10 after leaving S&S. These were lighter, had shallower draft, a bigger SA/D, were narrower than the Tartan 10 and had less form stability. But additional sail area and light weight only is useful in very light air, if the boat has enough stability to be able to stand up to its sail plan. Despite having a larger ballast ratio, the San Juan would tend to a have a lot less stability, This meant that the San Juan 33s would be faster in light air dead down wind than the Tartan 10, but that the Tartan 10 would be a faster and easier boat to sail in all other conditions. Boats like the 33s would tend to be one trick ponies designed to obsolete design concepts. They were quickly eclipsed first by boats like the Olsen 30's and then by more well rounded designs like the Mumm 30.

Last year I helped a friend rebuilding a San Juan 30 (rotted bulkhead replacement, re-bedding and sealing deck leaks and so on. My friend also rebuilt the engine.) This was a more intimate view of Clark built boats than I had previously had. My sense is that these were simply built, performance oriented build quality boats. There was nothing on the boat that was not there to make it go. The glasswork and interior appointments were sturdy but crudely done. The gelcoat was in really rough shape and the deck cores were badly delaminated/rotted. My friend had been given that boat for free, but putting that boat back together cost pretty much what it was worth and maybe more.

Boats like these are near impossible to resell. If you think that the boat is cheap enough (less than $5K), it absolutely suits your needs, it is in solid condition with good sails and a good engine, you sail in a venue where there is predominantly light winds and flat water, and you will keep the boat long enough (maybe 5-10 years) to be worth messing with, then this might be a reasonable boat to buy. Otherwise there are much nicer built and more rounded boats out there.

Jeff
Very good insights. Thanks for your time… I am not familiar with the term ‘form stability’ does it get ‘knocked down’ easily in higher winds? The boat doesn’t feel tender at dockside to me, the ballast/displacement ratio is very good IMO. To further explain my intentions/desire, I am looking for something that would be easier to single hand than my Ticon 30, I frequently find myself without available crew or at the best very inexperienced crew, I am on an inland lake (Grand Lake of the Cherokee in NE Oklahoma) with mostly light and always VERY shifty winds. The San Juan’s self tacking jib appears to be a big plus and the PHRF rating is far better than my Ticon which does OK with heavier wind but does not seem to point well at all and at 10,000# it takes some good wind to keep moving.
 

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Very good insights. Thanks for your time… I am not familiar with the term ‘form stability’ does it get ‘knocked down’ easily in higher winds? The boat doesn’t feel tender at dockside to me, the ballast/displacement ratio is very good IMO. To further explain my intentions/desire, I am looking for something that would be easier to single hand than my Ticon 30, I frequently find myself without available crew or at the best very inexperienced crew, I am on an inland lake (Grand Lake of the Cherokee in NE Oklahoma) with mostly light and always VERY shifty winds. The San Juan’s self tacking jib appears to be a big plus and the PHRF rating is far better than my Ticon which does OK with heavier wind but does not seem to point well at all and at 10,000# it takes some good wind to keep moving.
So here are the short answers:
Form stability:
Sailboats have two primary types of stability: Initial stability and ultimate stability. Initial stability primarily results from the movement of the lateral center or buoyancy with heel angle. The shape of the hull controls speed at which the center of buoyancy moves with heel angle, and so initial stability is also referred to as 'form stability'. Form stability typically drops to near zero and moves into the negative category around 90 degrees of heel if not sooner.
Ultimate stability results from the relationship of the center of gravity to the center of buoyancy throughout the entire range of 180 degrees of a boat being rolled. In that regard, the lower the vertical center of gravity, the better the ultimate stability curve will be.
For day to day sailing, having more form stability is much more useful since it increases the ability to carry sail at flatter heel angles. Adding ballast keel ultimately prevent a boat from capsizing, but it has minimal impact at the relatively flat heel angles typical of normal sailing conditions.

Ease of handling:
The mix of a fractional rig and a high SA/D should make the 33S much easier to single-hand than the Ticon. The high SA/D means that you do not need to carry large overlapping headsails, and small overlap sails are much easier to tack, and can typically shift with changing conditions much more effectively. The backstay adjuster will be your best friend. With a SA/D of 23.3, the 33S will probably need a 110% genoa to be able to sail in light air (Self tacking jibs are typically at best around 90-95%) 110% genoas are very easy to tack and can be depowered more easily than a self-tacking sail and so will actually have a better wind range.

Racing PHRF:
The added speed, ease of changing gears, and light air ability of the 33S will certainly be an asset in racing in shifty conditions. That speed will allow you to make tactical decisions and tack on shifts more easily. Certainly the 119 to 132 rating on the 33S would move you closer to being scratch boat and so less likely to be rolled and end up in bad air. On the flip side, the narrow wind range of a boat like this would suggest that there will be races that are easier to win, and, without a lot of luck, races that will be very hard do well in. I also do not know whether these boats can sail to their ratings. Fast, low production number boats tend to get hit hard with unrealistic numbers on their PHRF ratings.

Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
So here are the short answers:
Form stability:
Sailboats have two primary types of stability: Initial stability and ultimate stability. Initial stability primarily results from the movement of the lateral center or buoyancy with heel angle. The shape of the hull controls speed at which the center of buoyancy moves with heel angle, and so initial stability is also referred to as 'form stability'. Form stability typically drops to near zero and moves into the negative category around 90 degrees of heel if not sooner.
Ultimate stability results from the relationship of the center of gravity to the center of buoyancy throughout the entire range of 180 degrees of a boat being rolled. In that regard, the lower the vertical center of gravity, the better the ultimate stability curve will be.
For day to day sailing, having more form stability is much more useful since it increases the ability to carry sail at flatter heel angles. Adding ballast keel ultimately prevent a boat from capsizing, but it has minimal impact at the relatively flat heel angles typical of normal sailing conditions.

Ease of handling:
The mix of a fractional rig and a high SA/D should make the 33S much easier to single-hand than the Ticon. The high SA/D means that you do not need to carry large overlapping headsails, and small overlap sails are much easier to tack, and can typically shift with changing conditions much more effectively. The backstay adjuster will be your best friend. With a SA/D of 23.3, the 33S will probably need a 110% genoa to be able to sail in light air (Self tacking jibs are typically at best around 90-95%) 110% genoas are very easy to tack and can be depowered more easily than a self-tacking sail and so will actually have a better wind range.

Racing PHRF:
The added speed, ease of changing gears, and light air ability of the 33S will certainly be an asset in racing in shifty conditions. That speed will allow you to make tactical decisions and tack on shifts more easily. Certainly the 119 to 132 rating on the 33S would move you closer to being scratch boat and so less likely to be rolled and end up in bad air. On the flip side, the narrow wind range of a boat like this would suggest that there will be races that are easier to win, and, without a lot of luck, races that will be very hard do well in. I also do not know whether these boats can sail to their ratings. Fast, low production number boats tend to get hit hard with unrealistic numbers on their PHRF ratings.

Jeff
Very nice. we’ll explained and I certainly appreciate your time, there just isn’t much information on these boats. Thanks again
 
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