[guitarguy56]

Thinking about removing the manual flush head unit on my Hunter 28.5 and installing an electric head with freshwater flush... I'd have to plumb a new water tank to supply the freshwater to the head... any objections to this? A ten gallon tank should be sufficient? It has a Jabsco manual unit on it now but rather than change all parts with a kit... I'd rather put in a new to us unit... make the admiral happy too... I've located a possible place for the water tank but wanted to know if others have the electric freshwater head unit and what they think about it. What say ye?

Please if you can not to invoke the composting head solution to this discussion. Thanks...

Forgot... 1989 H28.5 if this helps...

 

[jimrafford]

We installed jabscos "quiet-flush" 2 years ago. Love it. least noise of all the models we looked at. Small footprint. 10 gal. should be sufficient for weekends.
Jim

 

[tdw]

Until we bought current boat I would scoff at the idea of an electric head but I confess I am a convert.

Our girl has a Jabsco Quiet Flush as well. Love it.

One thing I cannot understand however .... why on earth would anybody consider using fresh water to flush a toilet ? I can see only one possible advantage and that is the lack of critters in the pipes that die and go all smelly on you if left undisturbed for a few days. Yes the smell if awful when you open everything again but it only lasts for a few minutes and then is gone. Rather that than seeing all that lovely fresh water being wasted.

 

[eherlihy]

I ass-u-me that you are referring to a Dometic Sealand Vacuflush Head. Which is actually a electric vacuum pump powered head. If so, I can enthusiastically recommend it!

I had an inoperable Sealand Vacuflush system installed on my O'day 35 when I bought it. I fixed it (it is actually a simple system - which is why I could figure it out) with inexpensive parts from my marina. The seal between the soule of the head compartment, and the porcelain bowl was leaking. The gasket was ~$12. I essentially rebuilt the entire system, including the pumpout (so that it would drain back into the holding tank) and am very happy.

PM me if you want any specifics.

 

[IStream]

I ass-u-me that you are referring to a Dometic Sealand Vacuflush Head. Which is actually a electric vacuum pump powered head. If so, I can enthusiastically recommend it!

I had an inoperable Sealand Vacuflush system installed on my O'day 35 when I bought it. I fixed it (it is actually a simple system - which is why I could figure it out) with inexpensive parts from my marina. The seal between the soule of the head compartment, and the porcelain bowl was leaking. The gasket was ~$12. I essentially rebuilt the entire system, including the pumpout (so that it would drain back into the holding tank) and am very happy.

PM me if you want any specifics.

I've got four (count 'em, 4) Vacuflush toilets on my boat and they've stood up to liveaboard abuse at the hands of me, Mom, and three little ones aged 5-11 for nearly a year with nary a hiccup. In my experience you should have a freshwater supply that's 30%-50% of your holding tank capacity, depending on your flush rules (i.e. use the lower range if you employ the "yellow is mellow" rule).

As for the advantages of freshwater flushing, it's not just smell issues, it's the mineral buildup that you avoid.

 

[Minnewaska]

We have the Jabsco Quiet Flush heads right now. The idea that they are actually quiet makes me chuckle. You can hear the mascerating pump from anywhere aboard. The intake pump is another story, but you can hear that from anywhere as well. Unfortunately, our intake is under the sole, inside our stateroom, just outside the head door. If you use the head in the middle of the night, there ain't no way your spouse is going to stay asleep. We're resigned to it.

Still, I generally like the unit. Takes some TLC as many heads do. Occasional rebuild kit, etc. Mine are 10 years old and I've replaced all the mascerating pumps too. All electronics eventually fail. On the positive side, having your waste mascerated right at the bowl helps avoid clogging.

I have one caution with an electric head. If it fails, do you have a manual pump head aboard? We don't, but we do have three heads, so we've gotten away with it. I have some stories about guests using the head and not being able to flush. Very humiliating for them. The guys took it better than the one woman who it happened to over the years. Most often it's been a loose wire or worn switch. Once the pump itself failed.

Some electric heads have a manual override. Ours doesn't. Worth thinking about.

Sealand makes both a mascerating and vacuum flush unit, I believe. The latter vacuflush is the gold standard, IMO. Very low water usage, but must be the most expensive marine heads on the market. They work like airline toilets and literally vacuum the waste lines clear.

As for fresh water flushing. If I was using a vacuflush, I might consider it, but it still seems unecessary. Electric mascerating heads require even more flush water than hand pump. Why? Because everything gets chewed up and mixes with the flush water, as you're trying to first push it up to the vented loop, so gravity can get it to the holding tank. We first flush the contents of the bowl, then literally fill the bowl to the rim with clean water and flush that at once to chase it all out of the lines. That will use a ton of water (and holding tank capacity) Peggy Hall would say that you need to flush up to 3 gallons of water with a mascerating head.

We have a 77 gallon central holding tank for 3 heads. It's good for a few days for just my wife and I, but with a boat load of guests, it's almost full daily.

Electric heads are the closest thing to a home toilet, but they are absolutely not the same. I leave a laminated card in each guest head so they know how to use them. At the bottom I congratulate them for now being toilet trained.

 

[guitarguy56]

I hear very good comments on the electric head units and their simplicity over the manual flush... I'm going this way... the unit I'm thinking about installing is a Sealand 8900 series unit... it has a .85 gallon full flush with water in the bowl or .45 gallon with the bowl dry... but most important is the touchpad so that the admiral does not have to use any levers/handles... it make it so much easier to use and hides the macerator and hoses behind the base... clean easy setup. The holding tank in this boat was changed to 20 gallons... and from what I see it has space for a larger tank if needed. I think a 10-12 gallon fresh water tank to handle the head needs is fine... also the H28.5 has a 27 potable freshwater tank that could be diverted for use but I will refrain from that due to possible mixing of water.

SeaLand 8900 Series MasterFlush Toilet

Looking forward to the install soon... I also plan on all new hoses but reading about using PVC pipes for the runs and short flex hoses at the fittings to avoid stressing the tank/seacock. Anyone plumb their units with PVC rather than hoses... read it eliminates the odor issue?

 

[Minnewaska]

.....a Sealand 8900 series unit... it has a .85 gallon full flush with water in the bowl or .45 gallon with the bowl dry....

The amount of water it will flush is not at all related to how much you need to flush. The need is based upon the lift to the vented loop and travel to your holding tank. Picture trying to push ground waste uphill. Peggy Hall says between 1 and 3 gallons per flush. The variability is related to line diameter, height and whether you pushing solid or liquid waste.

The major problem boaters have with their heads is the psychology that when the waste is out of the bowl, they're all set. That's true for our gravity driven home toilets, but almost never true aboard. You need to keep flushing until the water left in the lines is clear and you can't actually see inside them.

I also plan on all new hoses but reading about using PVC pipes for the runs and short flex hoses at the fittings to avoid stressing the tank/seacock. Anyone plumb their units with PVC rather than hoses... read it eliminates the odor issue?

Controversial subject. You'll get both points of view. I've never used solid piping, but it's hard to assess. I'm sure it won't permeate as easily, but neither will good Trident hose and proper flushing procedure.

Obviously, flexible hose is just that. More flexible, easier to route and install. PVC will need straight runs and be absolutely sure it is well secure. When water travels through the hose/pipe, it will weight much more that when you're installing. Flex hose will move up and down, locally. Rigid pipe is going to try to move the whole system. Also, you'll still need to use a small amount of flex hose to make connections, like couplers. That's more points of failure and more internal ridges. Some say the rigid pipe will become brittle and crack over time. I can't say I've seen that in my house, but I suppose the constant hard slamming of an offshore boat is much more abusive. Be sure an references are applicable to your use.

 

[tdw]

I understand the problem with mineral build up but I've never found that to be so much of a problem that it would convince me to go fresh water.

Our method btw is that when we first get on board we give the whole system a serious flushing using the holding tank bypass. Probably a wee bit naughty but there is certainly no sewerage going out. We do the same thing before leaving the boat and if we are on board for more than a few days will give it a good flushing every few days.

All our hoses are flexible. We get no odours other than the initial dead critter smell.

 

[guitarguy56]

OK... convinced... Trident hoses the way to go... was looking at the freshwater unit since I figure it wouldn't have the dead sea critter smell... I would rather have the typical bathroom smell over the seaweed/dead marine life smells... but that is neither here nor there... looking at a best setup for the head... It will be light years a'head' over the manual unit... buying spare parts along with the unit for safekeeping/breakdowns... Our cruising only takes us out the weekends and we barely use the head now... we use marina/restaurant facilities for the 'solids' stuff... but it helps if the unit/tank will have the capacity to handle the occasional accident or non sailing guest use.

 

[eherlihy]

When I replumbed the Vacuflush system, I used SCH 80, rigid, PVC for the long straight runs. No issues in the last three years. THE trick was to buy the Sealand Vacuflush slip on adapters. I posted elsewhere on Sailnet about them, including price and part number. PM me if interested.

 

[tdw]

One other thing ... if you leave the bowl dry you'll minimise the dead critter smell. It will occur of course when you first flush but it won't be there when you first board.

 

[Minnewaska]

...... I would rather have the typical bathroom smell over the seaweed/dead marine life smells... ......

The salt water dead critter smell is a low tide type smell, not sewage or dead fish. Essentially, your going to smell it out cruising, whether it occasionally comes from your head or not! It only happens aboard after the hose sits unused for several days, in the hottest weather. If you are aboard and using the head even just once per day, it would never smell.

When we leave for a few days, we fill the bowl with fresh water from the sink in the head and flush that dry. That cleans out the salt water in the rise to the vented loop. The salt water, between the thru hull and the bowl sits stagnant and that's where the critter die and smell. Before that single first flush, we put a few drops of Raritan CP (the only stuff you should ever clean the bowl with anyway, because it doesn't destroy the good bacteria in your holding tank). Then just flush through a gallon of water or so and you're done. Fresh water plumbing just isn't worth the hassle, IMO.

 

[eherlihy]

Here is one of the old posts that I referred to;

I have a VacuFlush system, installed by the PO, on my boat.

Initially I was wary of the system, but since I have rebuilt just about all of the components, that are likely to wear out (Duckbill valves and the latest was the floor flange gasket), I have reconsidered. There really isn't much to break once the system is installed correctly. It works just like the head on an airplane, except that it uses fresh water (no smell) instead of the blue stuff..It uses about a quart (or less) of water every time you flush. The only noise that it makes is the "Pop, Shhhhhhhhh" when you press the lever.

A friend has an electric on his Catalina 380. Personally, I hate the "BWAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" at about 90db every time that you flush. That, and the fact that it is a manual head with a noisy blender motor attached would keep me from ever considering one.

I think that the LaVac would be my second choice to the VacuFlush. Again simple, and not much to break. Advantage here is that I believe that they are quieter than the Vacuflush.

There is another post where I spelled out the trick to install on the cheap. Again, PM me if interested.