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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/sailboat-design-construction/54248-big-freaking-messy-sail.html

So Sun late afternoon we were out in 20 to 25 with gusts to 30k. Second reef in the main and about 4 feet of jib showing.
20k was fine but when it gusted to 30k we had the rail pretty close to the water and a lot of weather helm.
We were fine and had a lot of fun despite the messy reefing job, it worked fine.
My question is what happens if it pipes up to 40k or more?
We had the traveler to leeward to depower the main. We had no more reefs to take in. I've done jib only in similar situations and it seems to be pretty good.
I know it depends on the sailor as much or more than the boat and that the Catalina 30 is a coastal cruiser at best and the waves make a lot of difference but what is too much for this boat?
Of course even at 20 to 25 knots when we switched to a beam reach it quieted down so much I took a quick nap on deck.
 

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One of None
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Storm sails. know your weather as much as possible before venturing out Tall rig or standard?
 

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Not sure where you are sailing out of, but yes, 30+ knots can be interesting in a 30'r, like I have too! I find that a double reef and 110 is too much. The day I was going to try the storm jib and a single/double reef, had in issue with a gybe I did not want to do, boom broke! So motored home.

Anyway, I would not worry about the coastal cruiser part of this, it is a matter of figuring out what works best on your boat, in that type of breeze. The only way I know how to figure it out, is either ask, watch others, and sail in it!

Marty
 

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In enclosed coastal conditions with a short fetch you are probably fine up to 35 knots: the waves will still be small.

I would be much more careful getting in a really good reef that would blade out my main. A sloppy reefed main that has a larger draft would be too powerful.

At 40 knots, I would take down the main and try to maintain some control with the small furled headsail. Or if the main reefed down well, I would furl up up the headsail. Either way, I would forget making any distance to windward.

I concur with the comment about weather. And I would watch the sky and my barometer.

Jack
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

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Who you talking bout sir. Better not be me.:)
I would never accuse you of:

  • being sloppy
  • being the main
  • being large
  • being drafty
  • being too powerful

That would be inconsiderate :laugher

Jack
 

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As jackdale says it is extermely important to get your reefed main as flat as a possible, think a sheet of plywood. Although they are very popular, I hate furlers. When it is really piping up you do not have many options. Without one you can drop what ever you have up and put up a #3 or a #4.

Gary
 

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Catalina 30's have DRIFTED to Hawaii, (see attached article) so in MOST cases you just have to STAY on the boat.
The Log.com News
I make it a rule that after anyone on board has "chummed" 3 times I'll turn downwind and head for shelter, unless waves are VERY big and you start to surf, going downwind makes a rough day easy.
 

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As I've mentioned before, I've seen Catalina 30s broach on a run in a race situation in as little as 22 knots. To my mind, this is because their relatively small rudders and go-fast hull form can get tricky for the average helmsperson. While I agree that you can do a lot with active helming and sail trim to keep going in higher winds, I think this (and in higher, six-foot-plus waves) that the unsuitability of the Catalina 30 outside of its coastal haunts becomes clear.

I would rather be working to windward toward shore on one, personally, than on a run away from it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
As I've mentioned before, I've seen Catalina 30s broach on a run in a race situation in as little as 22 knots. To my mind, this is because their relatively small rudders and go-fast hull form can get tricky for the average helmsperson. While I agree that you can do a lot with active helming and sail trim to keep going in higher winds, I think this (and in higher, six-foot-plus waves) that the unsuitability of the Catalina 30 outside of its coastal haunts becomes clear.

I would rather be working to windward toward shore on one, personally, than on a run away from it.

That's interesting. Last year, our first year with the boat I had an odd experience with it.

We were beating and working against the current which was apparently faster than I expected. We were making about 3 knots but the helm was very very tender. It did not want to hold a course. Then I noticed that accounting to the gps we were going backward.

Maybe the rudder configuration had something to do with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Catalina 30's have DRIFTED to Hawaii, (see attached article) so in MOST cases you just have to STAY on the boat.
The Log.com News
I make it a rule that after anyone on board has "chummed" 3 times I'll turn downwind and head for shelter, unless waves are VERY big and you start to surf, going downwind makes a rough day easy.

What a weird story. How did it get dismasted? Go figure?
 

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Maybe the rudder configuration had something to do with it.
I consider the rudders of Catalina 30s a little on the small side, but it's not something that is readily apparent in the sort of conditions in which the vast majority of Catalina 30s usually sail.

I like to use the Catalina 30 (arguably the most popular production boat ever) as an example of a near-perfect short-haul coastal sailboat and club racer. I like them, but I have seen at first hand how in some adverse conditions their performance limitations are made immediately apparent. Broaching while surfing would be one, and the lightness of the rig would be another. Some of these issues can be overcome by experienced crew and particularly helming.

Also, that really wide companionway makes me nervous, but if you're getting pooped on a C-30, you probably have other, more pressing concerns!:eek:
 

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"My question is what happens if it pipes up to 40k or more?"

If you go looking for that kind of weather in a 30" Catalina you'll get hammered.

If you get caught out in that weather there are some things you can do to make the loads on your rig lighter.

I've had a ReefRite headsail furler for 3 years now. With the ReefRite's Kiwi slide (replacing hanks) system it's possible to change the headsails at sea. The furling foil has a gate where the Kiwis slide in like slugs on a mainsail. Drop the Genoa and the sail is contained in the foil below the gate. Lash the sail, pull the Kiwis out of the gate and send the Genoa below.

Now you can load the heavy-weather high cut 95% jib's Kiwis into the foil. Hoist it up and sail!

You'll need a pennant on the head of the little jib to allow the furler halyard car to reach maximum hoist and not twist if you want to furl it. If not- just drop the little sail as if it was hanked on. Bag it and hoist back up the Genoa.

Sailing with a half rolled up 135 Genoa is not an answer. The cloth is too light, the position of the rolled up sail is too high, and the sausage of furled cloth in the forestay makes windward sailing tough!

A small heavy high cut (to allow the sea to splash under) jib and a double reefed main can handle 30 kts in relative comfort. AND we can work to windward!!!!!!!

We still don't chase after 40 knots!

Once you've sailed with the ReefRite you'll know. The remote controlled lock on the furling drum is tops too!!!!!!
 

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Other options include using a GaleSail, which hanks on over the furled roller furling headsail.

Keeping the main sail's reefed shape as flat as possible is one reason I prefer a TWO-LINE reefing system, rather than the one-line system that many people use. The two-line system gives you far better control over the reefed main sail's shape, by allowing you to properly tension the reef's clew and tack points independently.

Adding a third reef, if you typically sail in heavier winds is a very good solution. :)
 
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