SailNet Community banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm in the middle of removing my universal 5411 engine mated to a hurth transmission, and have a pressing (ha-pun!) question before I lose the community dock to the Labor Day weekend. Everything is off the engine - except that the prop shaft and its coupling are still connected to the transmission flange, even though I've removed the four bolts connecting the coupling to the transmission flange. The packing nut is all the way loose and leaking water when I wriggle the engine (the shaft is moving because it's still somehow connected to the transmission), but I can't push the prop shaft coupling and shaft back from the transmission, or move the engine forward with the two still locked together. Knowing that transmissions are surprisingly fragile and unsurprisingly expensive, I don't want to force anything. The eight hours of internet searching all make this seem easy (e.g. remove four bolts, loosen the packing nut, and slide it on back!), with the issues arrising when people need to remove the coupling from the shaft - but this is not my problem. I want to leave the coupling attached to the shaft, but just remove the coupling from the transmission so I can lift the engine to take the head off.

Here is a picture of the coupling and transmission connection, I've removed the four bolts shown in the picture already:


Please let me know if you have any suggestions, and thanks!
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
19,489 Posts
Looks like an old 'drive saver' coupling.. could it be there are bolts on the transmission side too? Also many couplings have 'blind' threaded holes that can be used with bolts to separate the two halves.. maybe have a look for that too.

Also... maybe you're trying to separate the wrong parts??

 
  • Like
Reactions: RichH

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
19,489 Posts
Here is a link to the transmission schematic as well: http://www.catalina30.com/TechLib/Engines/M5411/M5411_PARTS.pdf The transmission flange is shown in section 26. Thanks!
Yes, but the 'fat' part of your coupling, indeed the coupling itself regardless of type, is not part of the transmission. The gearbox drawings end at the output flange, to which the coupling connects.

I agree your shaft should disengage based on removing the 4 bolts, but I don't think the entire coupling body will. Though it looks a bit different from the one in my posted picture, it still looks like a 2-part drive saver - meant to minimize vibration due to slight misalignment.

I can see nuts on the tranny side of the output flange.. if you can get those off the entire thing could separate from the tranny flange.. allowing you remove the engine/gear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the thoughts Faster! It's certainly a weird looking thing and doesn't resemble any of the couplings I've seen on other threads and blogs. Sadly, both faces of the coupling are smooth, so I don't think blind holes exist, and I can't see any other ways of fixing the shaft in place, except for maybe those big screws mounted in rubber that are just barely visible in the above picture on the sides of the coupling. The four bolts shown match up to the transmission diagram in the parts manual (sorry I didn't upload it before - very slow computer).

I thought maybe the shaft was threaded and somehow locked into the transmission, but I can't get the shaft and the transmission to turn independently either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,717 Posts
I had a 5411 on my previous boat and my coupling looked nothing like your picture. Mine had the "four arm" coupling at the transmission as shown in the Universal manual. Four bolts would disconnect the shaft coupling from the propeller shaft. Yours looks pretty corroded and I'm sure that's part of the problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,872 Posts

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
19,489 Posts

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
19,489 Posts
Slightly clearer, cleaner drawings:

http://file.seekpart.com/keywordpdf/2010/12/18/2010121843016797.pdf

It does look, now, however, that the entire coupling assembly SHOULD disengage from the tranny's output flange if the 4 bolts are out.. so it's gotta be corrosion holding things up or (thinking externally) if a shaft zinc is too near the strut the prop shaft won't slide out either...

Hope all this helps you out a bit, brownoarsman!
 
  • Like
Reactions: brownoarsman

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Thanks a lot, everyone! Nice to know there's a flexible coupling on the boat now that I think back to a couple of those crab pots I snagged in Florida sailing down to Key West with the transmission in neutral! :)

I'd rather not remove the shaft from the coupling (and who even knows if I can with the shaft inside the boat if the corrosion is so bad that I can't remove the coupling from the transmission!). I agree - with those four bolts out the coupling should disengage from the trans - the prop shaft has clearance down to the strut to disengage. I'll pull out my thin blade and rubber mallet, and see if some gentle taps might dislodge it. Thanks again everyone, and what a piece of history!

Dan
 

·
Over Hill Sailing Club
Joined
·
3,688 Posts
It's probably an inner flange rusted solidly in place. I'd keep soaking it for days in PBBlaster, heat it up a bit, keep tapping it, and keep trying to get it apart gingerly. You are right about the fragile nature of trannys and the cost to fix. With that in mind, it may be a better alternative to just cut the shaft off and haul the engine up where you can effectively get at it. A shaft is a lot cheaper than a new tranny.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Thanks everyone for your help! I couldn't get the pry in, but I've wiped the coupling/flange connection with PB Blaster, and will repeat that process for a while. After taking out the engine mount bolts, I've repinned the mounts back into place to accommodate the Labor Day wakes. Luckily my mooring isn't too far from shore :) I've also got a call out to the company (glad they're still around!) to ask for suggestions. Thanks very much for identifying that coupler OB, I never would have figured out what that thing was. Enjoy the weekend everybody!

Dan
 

·
Tartan 27' owner
Joined
·
5,242 Posts
Plan B might be: get a sharp new metal Sawzall blade & Sawzall, cut shaft in half, done.

New SS shaft should cost about $250 ~.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
535 Posts
Thanks everyone for your help! I couldn't get the pry in, but I've wiped the coupling/flange connection with PB Blaster, and will repeat that process for a while....

Dan
Just a word of caution with the PB Blaster.... penetrating oil could destroy your transmission seals, so make sure it will not run anywhere near it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,613 Posts
Never took one apart but the picture looks like removing the 4 big bolts aroung the outer drum. should release the shaft coupling from the rubber lumps and allow the shaft to fall back.That would allow the engine to be slid forward or up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Thanks for the help everyone! I was wiping the area with PB Blaster on a rag to avoid getting the gasket eater into the transmission. Unfortunately, it's true what they say about being on the water being safer than being on land. Five days on shore in a house, after six plus months of singlehanding around the Bahamas and East Coast, and I wound up in the ER and am now confined to bedrest for over a week.
So, unfortunately, nothing to show for the effort yet, but at least the PBB will have a long time to soak in ...
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
19,489 Posts
Thanks for the help everyone! I was wiping the area with PB Blaster on a rag to avoid getting the gasket eater into the transmission. Unfortunately, it's true what they say about being on the water being safer than being on land. Five days on shore in a house, after six plus months of singlehanding around the Bahamas and East Coast, and I wound up in the ER and am now confined to bedrest for over a week.
So, unfortunately, nothing to show for the effort yet, but at least the PBB will have a long time to soak in ...
Well, keep us posted and .... details, man, details.. what did you do to yourself???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Ha! Well, since you all deserve a laugh after all the help you provided, even if the laugh is at my expense, and since this is an anonymous forum ...

As my username might imply, I rowed in college, and while I wasn't particularly good, I still rowed a lot, and managed to row my way into a long-term overuse injury. Part of the physical therapy for this injury is to fix an elastic tube to an anchor point, step back so that your hands are about two feet in front of you and the band is tensioned, and swing your arms straight back so that each hand is outside its corresponding hip.

I've been doing this PT for years, and on the boat I used my mast or similarly rugged attachment - in fact, everything is either backed with aluminum plate or large fender washers. But before my little single-handing adventure, I used doorknobs for years. Doorknobs in my home, doorknobs in hotels, doorknobs in my office. I've also installed tens of doorknobs working construction and just general DIY as a kid. Every doorknob I've ever installed or worked on has the handle as an integral piece of the mechanism: through-bolted or screwed to the other side of the mechanism, or a part of a monocoque structure. Most online guides to elastic tube therapy exercises suggest using a doorknob as an anchor point. You can probably see where this is going ...

My parents recently moved into a new house, and I have my boat on the mooring ball out front - it was very convenient! Well, I began doing my PT exercise as I always do, this time in the house, and just as soon as the tube, which is a very thick elastic tube, reached full extension, the doorknob sprang off the door and hurtled into the singular place most apt to cause men pain. After about twenty minutes on the floor, I managed to pick myself up, look at the doorknob, and realise that these ones are press-fit onto the locking mechanism, much like a prop shaft and coupling, actually! Never seen this before.

Anyways, after one hour when the pain didn't disappear and I now had a large lemon in my pants, we drove to the ER. While I may not have been able to dodge a doorknob, I did manage to dodge a bullet, luckily, and avoided surgery and have only minor tissue damage. I figure if Lance can win all those tours with only one testicle, I'll probably do okay with 1.9!

Should have stayed on the boat!
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top