This is kind of just thinking out loud with my fingers.

My current SeaHawk paint was just a waste of money ! I got their top paints available in the US and hard growth started within a month. A MONTH! At $275 and $210 per gal that is just bull ****! So I have been looking at other paints now for over a year.

Instead of the marketing hype, like the Seahawk fake warranty, I started looking at what the actives are in the various paints. This is mostly copper, some type of slime agent, and a binder/polymer that wears away etc. That finally led me the Sherwin Williams Copper Bottom #45 and the PPG ABC3 paints. Both these are basically at their heart are 45% copper paints and in a year of searching have yet to find a displeased owner of either. Besides the binders and polymers the main difference between the 2 I can see is while both have zinc in them, the PPG has almost 3 times the Copper #45. Since zinc is a good hard growth biocide I am leaning toward the PPG ABC3.

I can get the SW Copper #45 for $103/gal or the PPG ABC3 for $99/gal, each having as much copper as the hyped up bottom paints we always hear about,

There is a discussion on both of these paints here: Sherwin Williams COPPER BOTTOM ANTI-FOULING PAINT #45. You probably know about it because you participated but others may not be aware of that thread.

 

Yes I even reread that earlier today during a general google search on both paints. The only negative comment I could find on the internet is from...

 

I wonder what comment you made and whom it was about that the mod felt compelled to edit out?

 

In 2002, I had to haul out in El Salvador. The only bottom paint available was some Sherwin-Williams at $45/gallon. It was mostly used on local pangas and fishing boats. It kept the bottom perfectly clean and was gone in a year. I wouldn’t use it again, but it did what it was supposed to do for a reasonable time and a good price.

 

@Don L How about doing a test? On each side do some stripes of different paints? Then the differing light conditions etc should be evened out.

Maybe mix the 2 paints for one stripe.

All I know is we are being ripped off severely. If a slow moving cargo ship (some only go 10 to 12 knots year in /year out) spend $300 per gallon per year they would run broke.

BTW I have used both Sea Hawke and Micron Pro.... Black is by far the better colour.

Mark

 

On each side do some stripes of different paints? Then the differing light conditions etc should be evened out.

We've got a bit of that going on right now. The boat has Coppercoat, but I glassed over some thruhulls and slapped on Pettit Vivid bottom paint over the new glass work. So far after 7 months, the Vivid is one of the worse bottom paints I've experienced, and the Coppercoat is even worse than the Vivid.

I will say this about Vivid, though. The colors are very good and intense and are not fading or changing color. The reason it is on the bottom patches is because I was using it to make a custom color to paint over our boot stripe to help prevent grass growing there, so had some extra laying around. Besides nice colors, it also burnishes hard and smooth and to a semi gloss, so really looks like topside paint (at least along the water line). So far, it seems to be working in this application, but I wouldn't paint a boat bottom with it.

Mark

 

Another interesting observation is that I chocked our daggerboard trunks using epoxy thickened with graphite powder. I didn't put any antifouling over the part of the chocking that is exposed around the trunks. So far, nothing has grown on this. Too slippery? Too toxic? Not enough elapsed time?

Mark

 

With the black paint I think it doesnt reflect the light as much so the undersides are darker making a less hospitable place for growth.
Its also why I suggested a test on both sides of the boat because people often park the boat in the same direction, so the south facing side (in the northern hemisphere) might attract more growth than the northern side. Here in the Tradewinds areas the boat is always facing the east, starboard side always gets more light directly and from the reflections of the white sand bottom.

It would be great to know if one paint works better in brighter light, etc. Because theres no problem painting different paints on each side.

The paints you are suggesting cost 1/3rd of the ones I use... and I buy about 4 or 5 gallons per paint job. Saving $800 per year is a LOT of beer!!

@colemj "The reason it is on the bottom patches is because I was using it to make a custom color to paint over our boot stripe to help prevent grass growing there." Exactly! The gap between the antifouling and the boot strip started about 6 inches and now its about 1 inch and still gets mucky.

When I would use a Vivid antifouling colour is when selling the boat. I think that could be well worthwhile. Nothing worse than seeing a dirty, encrusted hull. A newly painted bright colour would be worth the money.

Mark

 

With the black paint I think it doesnt reflect the light as much so the undersides are darker making a less hospitable place for growth.

Black paint is no more effective than any other color when it come to retarding fouling growth (copper content notwithstanding.) The environment is not darker below a hull painted with black paint than one painted with white. It may be more difficult to see the fouling growth on a black hull but there is not less of it.

 

xxxxx

 

I found more forum threads with PPG users. None of the USERS have had anything bad to say about the ABC3 paint. BUT ON EVERY ONE our SF bottom cleaner came in to say otherwise and to turn the thread into an argument.

PPG doesn't do a lot of marketing to recreational boaters as we probably aren't worth much of their time. I sent in a technical inquiry about actives and recommendations and will see what they have to say.

 

Well I got the PPG ABC3 paint and will try to update this over the next 3 years with how it did. But at $495 for 5-gal it is bound to work as well as the 4-gal of SeaHawk paint that was $920 that had hard growth within a month.

And I got black so if it doesn't work I am blaming MarkJ

 

Well I got the PPG ABC3 paint and will try to update this over the next 3 years with how it did. But at $495 for 5-gal it is bound to work as well as the 4-gal of SeaHawk paint that was $920 that had hard growth within a month.

That cost saving is more than just significant. Over the lifetime of a boat its a game-changer.

Looking forward to the results

 

well that took longer than normal

 

Purchasing the paint? ???
Mark

 

Thread rises from the dead.

I find it interesting that according to the Federal pesticide license PPG ABC3 paint is only approved for commercial yard application on commercial boats. It specifically says not for recreational boats. Yet I brought the it at PPG store. I found a couple of State licenses and they say the same.

 

Since it is marketed toward the commercial market, I suspect there is probably just additional paperwork for recreational approval that the company didn't find worthwhile to pursue. I've found other paints like this - Micron 77 & 99, some of the Jotun paints. Some of these are also sold only in 5gal or larger containers. I've also found some recreational paints that state they can only be applied "professionally", whatever that means.

That thrill you get when you break the law...

Mark

 

I have been buying ABC3 and 4 for quite a while now; USA, Canada, St Maarten. No problem.

I will mention again thatI did an accidental experiment. I kicked over a small bottle of Ospho which ran down the side of the boat in stripes. I only noticed it some days later and cleaned it off. The bottom had significantly less growth there. So then I tried it as an experiment and sprayed some Ospho on in places, which had noticeably less growth. Now I do it as a matter of course.

When I related this elsewhere Joe Chemist assured me I was full of it, brimming over. He had complicated reasons why the chemical reaction won’t work. Personally I think barnacles just don’t like the taste LOL.

And maybe my steel hull has some role in it.

So it did not stop growth, just slows it.

 

I have been buying ABC3 and 4 for quite a while now; USA, Canada, St Maarten. No problem.

I will mention again thatI did an accidental experiment. I kicked over a small bottle of Ospho which ran down the side of the boat in stripes. I only noticed it some days later and cleaned it off. The bottom had significantly less growth there. So then I tried it as an experiment and sprayed some Ospho on in places, which had noticeably less growth. Now I do it as a matter of course.

When I related this elsewhere Joe Chemist assured me I was full of it, brimming over. He had complicated reasons why the chemical reaction won’t work. Personally I think barnacles just don’t like the taste LOL.

And maybe my steel hull has some role in it.

So it did not stop growth, just slows it.

Go to a Sherwin Williams store and look at their super paint. Full retail price is 50-60 cents per gallon, but it is frequently "on sale" for 30 percent or more off. This is a good paint and primer combination with good coverage. You can use half the paint you would buy at a big box store, so your total project cost will be about the same. It looks great on the walls and is resistant to wiping and washing.

 

BTW because it is somewhere in this thread; I found out from the pesticide license listings that ABC4 has about half the copper of the ABC3.

 

So I FINALLY got a schedule for my haul out after trying for 4 months. I am having the yard do because, well I just don't want to. They said "you know that the PPG ABC3 paint doesn't set well". What the heck does that mean? In 2 years of research I haven't read anything like that and am not really even sure what that is suppose to mean. I am sure if they mean it doesn't dry fast and if you launch too soon it comes off that would be true. But can not see any issue with the paint drying and sticking properly as it isn't like PPG doesn't know how to make paint.

 

So I FINALLY got a schedule for my haul out after trying for 4 months. I am having the yard do because, well I just don't want to. They said "you know that the PPG ABC3 paint doesn't set well". What the heck does that mean?

It means they don't get a high commission for it...
Thats why I never ask "Whats the best XXX?"... because they will sell you the stuff/thing the salesman makes most or the shop makes most. Truly.

As for the yard doing the painting because you don't want to...... Here's my take: I've worked all my life and want to live as long as I can 'on the wallaby'. Sanding toxic chemicals that are designed to kill life is not my idea of prolonging my life no matter how many respirators I'm wearing. Same with the painting. Those solvents are going to get up the nose no matter what. To me its better to pay $$$ and have someone do it who is willing to accept the risk.

Glad you've got it finally sorted

 

I don't know what that means either. It mixes and dries and stores just like every other bottom paint I've ever used. There isn't anything unusual about it or its composition compared to others. It's not some type of strange technology or weird coating - it's just paint. Ask them what that means.

Mark

 

Ask them what that means.

I am too scared and think I am in a "don't ask don't tell" situation.

 

It is an ablative paint, and will rub off on things like all ablative paints, but it isn't any softer than all the other ablative paints. In fact, I found it harder than some we have used in the past. Micron 66 and a paint by Blue Water Paints (I forget the exact one) comes to mind.

Mark

 

Well the ABC3 paint is on. It doesnt seem “soft” compated to others I have used. But I am spending an extra day in the yard to be sure it gets to fully dry. But I will say the fumes piss my eyes off.

 

Well the ABC3 paint is on. It doesn't seem “soft” compared to others I have used. But I am spending an extra day in the yard to be sure it gets to fully dry. But I will say the fumes piss my eyes off.

Well it has been 3 months since the PPG ABC3 Black bottom paint was applied. Since then I have been sitting in a slip in downtown Jacksonville FL right on the St John's River. The water here is dirty and hot and growth is pretty bad.

Just had the hull cleaned for the first time and the diver says he will clean my boat anytime. Had no hard growth just some algae and slime. Asked the diver if it could go 2 months till next cleaning and he say "sure as it was 3 months this time and it was good". That was a first I have ever heard a diver say that cleaning could go longer,

So it hasn't been all that long, but the PPG ABC3 $99/gal paint has already done better than the $275/gal Seahawk paint I used last time.

 

I launched today. Near as I can tell none of the paint got taken off by the stands and lift straps didn't rub any of it off.

 

50-60 cents per gallon?????? Hard to believe even for the ugliest house wall paint known to man.

 

nice report john.... I'm do to be pulled this fall. and I'll be doing a power wash likely a scuff sand and a few coats of ablative. and also figure out whether i want to invest in propspeed...

$230 a gallon X3 for the CSC is a bit upsetting to the wallet...

I dove on my boat a month ago to get rid of some crusty on the prop and do a scrub on the bottom. no real hard growth on the bottom. a bit of a beard on the waterline and rudder but deeper than that was slime. I was happy with the Micron CSC i used. it will be two full seasons.

I'll have to think about the PPG option...

 

Had the bottom cleaned to day. It had been 3 months since last cleaning and 7 months since the PPG ABC3 $103/gal paint was applied. The boat has been in a slip with high growth warm brackish water the whole time.

Diver reported the bottom was pretty clean and mainly slime coated.

Couldn't say the same about my prop/shaft that has PropGlide on it. But he said it came off easy so the growth may had released once spinning.

 

When I purchased my current boat in 2016 I stumbled onto Nautical ProGuard Ablative made by AkzoNobel (parent company of Interlux) for $90-100/gallon. https://www.wholesalemarine.com/interlux-pro-guard-ablative-antifouling.htm lt has no anti-slime additive, but has been 100% effective for me at preventing hard growth. In 2019 I had some repairs done under the waterline, and the yard touched up the area with some other brand of ablative paint, and that touch-up had a bunch of barnacles when I hauled out, so it appears that the ProGuard outperforms at least one other name brand of paint. For under $100/gallon I'm thrilled, and I slap on a new, thin coat if it every year just before launch. (It thins with ordinary Xylene from Home Depot, an additional savings vs. buying special "brushing thinner".)

Although the Chesapeake has lots of nutrients, it is probably not as challenging as your waters in Florida. However, it is another option to consider for others who cannot find the PPG paint.

My previous supplier for the ProGuard (Wholesale Marine) has stopped carrying it, so I'm looking for a new place that has it. If any of you find a place with reasonable price and shipping charges, please post it here. I really don't want to change my bottom paint because ProGuard works well for me, and anytime you change the paint chemistry there is a risk of having adhesion problems unless you strip it all off.

 

Hamilton Marine has it! They even have a $20.- off promotion, look in their December flyer, they have it online.

I just ordered 2 gallons. Like you, I bought it in 2016, applied it in 2019, and saw the outcome this fall when I took the boat out. I was very satisfied. There were about a dozen barnacles on the hull (easily flipped off with a putty knife), even though the prop and shaft were covered in what seemed like several layers of barnacles (I used Pettit zinc paint on those, no antifouling). Not too shabby, after 3 years! My boat is just across the Chessie from you, at the mouth of Middle River, so conditions should be comparable.

I mentioned that I bought the in 2016 because I did have one issue with the paint. It was on sale in 2016 so I bought twice as much as I need, keeping one half for the next application. Usually, I only haul every two or three years, so the next application was in 2019, 2.5 years after purchase. I found that one of the cans had basically disintegrated, most of the paint had leaked out, having made a mess. I don't know whether this was a fluke or whether it is simply a bad idea to store antifouling for nearly three years. So this time I just ordered the quantity that I will apply next spring.

 

Thanks for the tip on Hamilton Marine. I can't quite get the whole boat done with 1 gallon, so some years I have to buy 2 gallons. (This is a 2-gallon year.) I've never held on to antifoulant longer than ~1.5 years, though. There must be some acidity that ate through your can.

I also noticed that Freeport Marine has ProGuard, with free shipping. Hamilton's shipping cost looks reasonable, but Freeport has unusually good prices on anodes, and I need to buy some, so I might go with them this time. I used to get anodes at WestMarine, but a few years ago the new owners about tripled the price of them ($1.50 pencil zinc went up to $5, shaft zincs even worse, but i don't replace them as often). Even with my WMPro discount, they're still outrageous.

 

Hamilton's shipping cost looks reasonable,

I would say their shipping cost is EXTREMELY reasonable. Did you see they have a 50 cents shipping option? This is what I ordered. Yes, two quarters shy of free but come on...

 

Been 8 months now on the ABC3 paint. Lot of that time in some high nasty water in Florida and now am in Bahamas. The paint is doing fine! Compared to the SeaHawk paint I used last time that was over 3x as much $$$$$ the ABC3 is doing EXCELLENT!

This probably will get lost in the topic drift