[joebeach]

Newbie here! Decades ago in my teens I sailed dinghies and beach cats on the NJ shore – now looking to get back to sailing on the Gulf and ICW near Tampa Bay and St. Petersburg, FL.

Looking for a versatile shoal draft pocket cruiser for shallow local waters. Mostly for day-sailing initially, much of that single-handed or with inexperienced “crew,” with a few overnights and weekends (1-4 people) tossed in. Ideally, this boat would also have the capacity for longer-range coastal cruising as my skills improve – FL west coast to the Keys and Tortugas, and perhaps even to Bimini/Bahamas, and up the US east coast to mid-coast Maine. (I can dream!)

Looking to keep LOA below 27 feet, and minimum draft as close to 2 feet as possible, and preferably even lower. My dock is half-dry at low tide (I’ll probably put in a lift and may have to dredge, which affects the budget). The boat must have a swing keel, keel/centerboard, lifting keel, dagger-board, or twin/bilge keel, etc. Boat budget is $5-10K.

While I’ve had a few opportunities to crew on 22-28’ sloops locally, most of my research to date has been on-line. There are many apparent possibilities. I hope to winnow them down by asking for comments here - particularly from those who have owned or sailed any of the boats listed below.

More cruiser than racer (I don’t plan to race):
Catalina 22/25
Com-Pac sloops - 21/23/25, Eclipse
Com-Pac cat boats - Horizon/Suncat
Chrysler 22/26
Morgan 24/25
O’Day 22/23/25
Precision 21/23
Rhodes 22
Tanzer 22/7.5/25
West Wight Potter 19
Westerly 22/23/25
Windrose 22/24
Yankee 24 (Sea Horse or Dolphin)

More racer than cruiser (don’t mind a fast cruiser with decent accommodations):
Merit 22/25
S2 6.7/6.9/7.9
San Juan 21/23/24/26

From what I’ve read – and please don’t be offended if you own one of these – the Hunter and MacGregor/Venture boats are built a little less sturdy than I’d prefer.

Would like a low-maintenance boat that sails pretty well at all points of sail, is forgiving of operator error/inexperience, is reasonably comfortable, is fairly fast in light/moderate winds, and is sturdy enough to handle the occasional 25-40 knot winds and 5-8 foot waves that sometimes appear suddenly in the Gulf. Not looking for a boat that requires a lot of owner repairs, replacements, or add-ons (unless a prior owner has done them) – I’m not that handy.

All that being said, any comments or recommendations on any of the above? Or perhaps another boat not on the list that fits the bill? Many thanks in advance!

 

[Skipper Jer]

Take a look at the Nor'sea 27. Crosses oceans, built like a tank, and can be moved around on her trailer.

 

[joebeach]

Thanks - but it looks like the Nor'sea 27 has a 3'10" draft - too much for local waters here.

 

[rhr1956]

Anytime the pocket cruiser question comes up, I like to endorse the West Wight Potter 19.

 

[oysterman23]

I. Acquired my Morgan 24/25 this summer and dearly love it. Steady. Positive helm. Good speed sweet temper and atleast this one is solid as stone. Admittedly getting old but though I am refitting gradually I've kept sailing from the start.and I find the cockpit well laid out..Realistically it draws 3 ft. Loaded up

 

[fallard]

A Marshall 22 catboat might be worth your consideration, but you'd have to look at the older models to get with $5K of your budget. You may pay more, but these boats tend to depreciate very slowly.

The Marshall 22 (10' beam, 2' draft (board up) and 5660# displacement) was made in both cat- and sloop-rigged versions. There are some examples for sale in the $15k range at CBA: Cats4Sale FALL 2012 Bulletin No.159. Catboats have stood the test of time and are relatively forgiving as long as you reef when you first think about it. They have large cockpits and make great daysailers. They are descendants of working coastal boats of over a hundred years ago and are great in light air, but can handle some pretty rough conditions that would challenge a lighter sloop like a Catalina 22 (which has half the displacement and a much narrower beam.)

 

[bljones]

Looking for a versatile shoal draft pocket cruiser for shallow local waters. Mostly for day-sailing initially, much of that single-handed or with inexperienced "crew," with a few overnights and weekends (1-4 people) tossed in. Ideally, this boat would also have the capacity for longer-range coastal cruising as my skills improve - FL west coast to the Keys and Tortugas, and perhaps even to Bimini/Bahamas, and up the US east coast to mid-coast Maine. (I can dream!)

Looking to keep LOA below 27 feet, and minimum draft as close to 2 feet as possible, and preferably even lower. My dock is half-dry at low tide (I'll probably put in a lift and may have to dredge, which affects the budget). The boat must have a swing keel, keel/centerboard, lifting keel, dagger-board, or twin/bilge keel, etc. Boat budget is $5-10K.

More cruiser than racer (I don't plan to race):
Catalina 22/25
Com-Pac sloops - 21/23/25, Eclipse
Com-Pac cat boats - Horizon/Suncat
Chrysler 22/26
Morgan 24/25
O'Day 22/23/25
Precision 21/23
Rhodes 22
Tanzer 22/7.5/25
West Wight Potter 19
Westerly 22/23/25
Windrose 22/24
Yankee 24 (Sea Horse or Dolphin)

More racer than cruiser (don't mind a fast cruiser with decent accommodations):
Merit 22/25
S2 6.7/6.9/7.9
San Juan 21/23/24/26

From what I've read - and please don't be offended if you own one of these - the Hunter and MacGregor/Venture boats are built a little less sturdy than I'd prefer.

Would like a low-maintenance boat that sails pretty well at all points of sail, is forgiving of operator error/inexperience, is reasonably comfortable, is fairly fast in light/moderate winds, and is sturdy enough to handle the occasional 25-40 knot winds and 5-8 foot waves that sometimes appear suddenly in the Gulf. Not looking for a boat that requires a lot of owner repairs, replacements, or add-ons (unless a prior owner has done them) - I'm not that handy.

All that being said, any comments or recommendations on any of the above? Or perhaps another boat not on the list that fits the bill? Many thanks in advance!

You've got a good list here, but you won't find a Tanzer 25 drawing 2' or less, although it would be my choice for heading to the tortugas or bahamas of the boats on your list. Same with the westerlys,although the twin keels may solve your tidal issues.
Find the best boat on your list for $5K. No more.
Yeah, I know, you've got a $10K ceiling, but you really don't. EVERY boat you buy will want something,or you will want to throw something at it,so you gotta figure that in,and human nature rears it's ugly head because everyone always exceeds their boatbuying budget. Always. If you think you have $10K you spend $12, because well, what the hell, you're already spending $10K.

I know,I know, you're different.
Everybody thinks they are.
Plus there all sorts of sneaky hidden costs like tax and registration and trailer bearings and Murphy has his shopping list too. This is your first boat- you need to have an "oh, fudge" fund because you will quickly discover that cheap stuff floatsm but expensive stuff sinks when it falls off your boat. And it will.
The difference between a great first sailing season and a lousy unfun first sailing season is that reserve budget. Getting that drowned outboard rebuilt isn't such a big deal when its' in the budget, for example.

Have fun, and we'll see you on the water.

 

[doogymon]

Canadian Sailcraft 22.

 

[gts1544]

joebeach, Remembering that interior space increases exponentially with length in a sailboat, I would try to get as close to your maximum length as meets the rest of your criteria, and I would closely examine my criteria that is not dictated by circumstances beyond my control. Also, remember that repairs and upgrades are very expensive, so try to purchase a vessel that has as much of what you want already incorporated. gts1544 PS - I used to own a Morgan 24/25 and loved that boat, but would feel pretty cramped on her today with more than myself aboard.

 

[davisr]

You might want to consider the Ericson 25. There is a website devoted to this boat. See especially the four-part article, "Why I Bought the Ericson 25." It covers many of the boats on your list (and more).

 

[Mobnets]

You might consider adding Paceship PY23 keel/centerboard version to the list. I had a 1977 before moving up in size and was very happy with it. If the admiral would let me have two boats I'd still own it.

Mobnets
1973 Paceship Chance 32/28 "Westwind"

 

[TQA]

What about a small catamaran say a Wharram Tiki?

 

[bljones]

What about a small catamaran say a Wharram Tiki?

Interesting choice- a Tiki21 could be had for the OPs bottom budget. Not a great all-weather boat and windward performance isn't stellar, but stable and quickish.

 

[Wayne25]

Add a Helms 25 to your list. There is an owners forum here on Sailnet.

Draft 20" with 300# centerboard up. 6' with it down.
1650# ballasted fixed keel for good tracking and stability and easy trailerling.
Sails great, we love the boat. In your price range.

 

[joebeach]

Anytime the pocket cruiser question comes up, I like to endorse the West Wight Potter 19.

A good little boat - thanks.

 

[joebeach]

What about a small catamaran say a Wharram Tiki?

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not a "self-build" guy, and the smaller Wharram designs like the Tiki 21/26/30 look a bit lean on creature comforts, but for the right person these small cats could be much fun!

 

[joebeach]

You might consider adding Paceship PY23 keel/centerboard version to the list. I had a 1977 before moving up in size and was very happy with it. If the admiral would let me have two boats I'd still own it.

Mobnets
1973 Paceship Chance 32/28 "Westwind"

Thanks. A well-regarded boat! I hadn't known they were also made with keel/cb. Will add to list.

 

[joebeach]

Add a Helms 25 to your list. There is an owners forum here on Sailnet.

Draft 20" with 300# centerboard up. 6' with it down.
1650# ballasted fixed keel for good tracking and stability and easy trailerling.
Sails great, we love the boat. In your price range.

Thanks. Read some good things about the Helms 25, but understand there are not too many around, especially in Florida. Will add to the list....

Then I'll have to start pruning it back.

 

[joebeach]

I. Acquired my Morgan 24/25 this summer and dearly love it. Steady. Positive helm. Good speed sweet temper and atleast this one is solid as stone. Admittedly getting old but though I am refitting gradually I've kept sailing from the start.and I find the cockpit well laid out..Realistically it draws 3 ft. Loaded up

Thanks. Morgan lived here in St. Pete, and there's one for sale locally for $2-3K. Will have to check it out....

 

[joebeach]

A Marshall 22 catboat might be worth your consideration, but you'd have to look at the older models to get with $5K of your budget. You may pay more, but these boats tend to depreciate very slowly.

The Marshall 22 (10' beam, 2' draft (board up) and 5660# displacement) was made in both cat- and sloop-rigged versions. There are some examples for sale in the $15k range at CBA: Cats4Sale FALL 2012 Bulletin No.159. Catboats have stood the test of time and are relatively forgiving as long as you reef when you first think about it. They have large cockpits and make great daysailers. They are descendants of working coastal boats of over a hundred years ago and are great in light air, but can handle some pretty rough conditions that would challenge a lighter sloop like a Catalina 22 (which has half the displacement and a much narrower beam.)

Interesting, thanks! Don't know much about cat boats, but I did see one made by a local boat-builder, Com-Pac/Hutchins, at the St. Pete Boat Show this year. Loved the tabernacle mast; it seems the easiest possible way to set up/tear down from a trailer, and apparently it works underway for low bridges too.

Never having sailed a cat boat, can you tell me a little about how they differ, for better or worse, in speed, pointing ability, and other basic sailing characteristics from a traditional monohull sloop of similar size?

It looks like the larger cat boats are generally 17-22" LOD, and while most have only a main sail, others appear to be sloop-rigged. What are the pros/cons of having a headsail/s on a cat boat?

It also looks like many of these are wooden boats, or at least have wooden spars - that gives me pause, here in FL. They appear to be relatively wide beamed, low draft, and heavy - which leads me to believe they'd be slower craft that may not sail well windward, while perhaps otherwise solid and steady sailers. Yet you say these boats are also good in light air, which seems contradictory. (?)

Almost all catboats I've seen mentioned online are located in the Northeastern US. Any reasons for this, other than maritime tradition? Are they comfortable boats to sail and crew in hot, humid, and variable sailing conditions?

Any other insights (or links to insight) you or others could share on these or other relevant points would be very much appreciated. Thanks!