SailNet Community banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
640 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone,

I'm really hoping to get some input on my next "real boat" purchase. My wife and I have been sailing the heck out of our Tanzer 7.5m for a few years now on the North Shore and Lake Huron. The "hobby" has not died down, in fact it's becoming an obsession so we are looking for our next boat. In a perfect world we'd buy a CS36T and have that as our long term cruiser, but with the prices out there we don't see that happening. The CS33 looks to be a possible great fit. Here's what we were hoping some owners could fill in for us:

-From what we can tell the CS33's had solid glass hulls. Is this true? We aren't as scared of cored decks because we can live with them being a bit spongy, and don't mind fixing them up if needed, however a cored hull with some delam is a real worry for us.

-A BIG reason to move up in boat size is due to us not wanting to live "hunched over" anymore. The Tanzer has been great to us but I think the headroom is about 4ft. I am 6ft 3", maybe 6ft 2in without shoes on. Is there any chance I will be able to stand up in the Cs33? It feels like it would be a dream to be able to stand up to put a pair of pants on lol.

-We would be looking to move it one day down the ICW and have it parked in FL as our Bahamas\Caribbean cruiser. Does anyone see any issue with that idea?

-Any major issues with these boats we should know about? I've heard the rudders are hollow and should be drained when hauled out each winter. Other than that anything else?


We know that we can sort out some of those questions by visiting a boat, but the nearest boat dealer and CS33 is over a 9hr drive (one way) from where we live. We will be doing some boat visits but if the CS33 won't fit the bill for us it's better to find out now rather than arrange vacation and a long drive just to be disappointed.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
19,489 Posts
I think you'll have adequate headroom in most areas with the CS 33. They are terrific boats with a good reputation. A bit hard to find depending on area.

IIRC there were both quarterberth versions and non quarter versions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Guyfromthenorth

·
Registered
Joined
·
391 Posts
We know that we can sort out some of those questions by visiting a boat, but the nearest boat dealer and CS33 is over a 9hr drive (one way) from where we live. We will be doing some boat visits but if the CS33 won't fit the bill for us it's better to find out now rather than arrange vacation and a long drive just to be disappointed.
We have quite a number of CS-33s in our area and several friends owned them. Nicely finished and no doubt, quite a good boat.

My wife & I have sailed quite a bit on one CS-33. Each time for about a week along with the owners. Partly in Gulf of St Lawrence, partly in more protected waters. With two couples you soon find that it is not a very big boat! Headroom is adequate but not all that great. A Mirage 35 an Ontario 32 (same price range?) or some others may provide better accommodation.

From a sailing viewpoint, the CS-33 is a good sailer. But it is relatively tender and you need to shorten sail early. Best in light air areas.

Be aware that some Bukh engines had problems. There were reports of water backing up from exhaust into the engine cylinders. Our friends eventually replaced theirs with a Yanmar (probably best engine for small sailboats)

Other issue with the CS-33 and CS's in general, was osmosis. Almost all that I know of had to have epoxy bottom treatment. So be sure it has been done and is still in good condition (Need to haul boat and have survey)

Finally, this is a link to a pretty good summary of the CS-33 (but bear in mind that author is a boat broker ;) )CS 33
 

·
Dirt Free
Joined
·
2,654 Posts
I believe CS boats to be the best of all production boats of that era so you are off to a good start. I've surveyed close to 200 CS's but only 19 -33's. I don't think they made as many as their other models. There were a few years where they had some bad gelcoat and were susceptible to blisters below the waterline but I have never seen a blister deeper than the gelcoat in a CS and out of about 200 boats I;ve seen about half a dozen, much fewer than any other brand of that era. In my opinion this is a cosmetic issue and easily dealt with.

CS boats are not perfect but they did have one feature that made them different from every other mfg. of the day. They had a QC program the day the factory opened and they stuck to it. With many others of those times what they built on Monday was very different from what they built on Thursday.

Yes, the hulls are solid glass and yes the rudders were built hollow...... big bonuses in my opinion.
As to problems with the Bukh .... first time I've heard of it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
391 Posts
As to problems with the Bukh .... first time I've heard of it.
Pat Sturgeon had heard of it ! Local surveyor here warned about it in his reports back when we were involved. (even if there was nothing wrong!) Several local boats had same problem - water in oil. Caused either by leakage from water pump seals or getting sucked back in from exhaust. Not good for engine!

Some links:
Diesel engine with 'peanut butter' cooling and lube system... - Fix It Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums
Bukh DV20 - Water in Oil - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

Of course, many Bukhs run for years without any problems. They were used extensively on UK canal boats. I had one myself (a saildrive) - It worked well, but only had it for two seasons! How do you check out an engine during a survey anyway?
 

·
Dirt Free
Joined
·
2,654 Posts
Pat Sturgeon had heard of it ! Local surveyor here warned about it in his reports back when we were involved. (even if there was nothing wrong!) Several local boats had same problem - water in oil. Caused either by leakage from water pump seals or getting sucked back in from exhaust. Not good for engine!

Some links:
Diesel engine with 'peanut butter' cooling and lube system... - Fix It Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums
Bukh DV20 - Water in Oil - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

Of course, many Bukhs run for years without any problems. They were used extensively on UK canal boats. I had one myself (a saildrive) - It worked well, but only had it for two seasons! How do you check out an engine during a survey anyway?
I'll be seeing Pat on Thursday, I'll have to ask him about that.
 

·
Dirt Free
Joined
·
2,654 Posts
Great info everyone, thanks for the input so far and keep it coming. I hadn't heard of the engine issue before so that's a heads up.

The mirages look good but the ones near me are pricier than the cs33. I hadn't look into Ontario yet but may have a look, I liked the aloha 34 too.
Aloha 34 common issues ....
Severe inter-laminate blisters below the waterline are not uncommon (this type can be structural).
Voids in keel ballast filled with water (don't know what ballast material is but this could be a problem)
Weak rudder skeg, I've seen several de-laminated with very high moisture content.
Serious issues with their propane installations.

Mirage - You don't say which size but compression post support on some models has been an issue. Deck/trunk core decay due to water intrusion may be slightly more prevalent than other brands.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
391 Posts
Boatpoker,
Have also heard of blistering problems with Alohas.

Not with Mirage. Their boats, despite being lower priced when new, have stood up better than most from that era. They had excellent glass shop. A bit cheap with hardware , but many used boats have updated equipment. Talking of Mirage 33/35 here, never heard about any compression post problem. Don't know what Deck/Trunk core decay means. No core issues that I have heard of on Mirage cruising boats and back when involved, no problems when surveyed.

Ontario 32 is solid and roomy boat. Gelcoat blistering occurred on most local boats, but by now, most boats would have had that addressed.
 

·
Dirt Free
Joined
·
2,654 Posts
Boatpoker,
Have also heard of blistering problems with Alohas.

Not with Mirage. Their boats, despite being lower priced when new, have stood up better than most from that era. They had excellent glass shop. A bit cheap with hardware , but many used boats have updated equipment. Talking of Mirage 33/35 here, never heard about any compression post problem. Don't know what Deck/Trunk core decay means. No core issues that I have heard of on Mirage cruising boats and back when involved, no problems when surveyed.

Ontario 32 is solid and roomy boat. Gelcoat blistering occurred on most local boats, but by now, most boats would have had that addressed.
I guess we've had differen experiences. I've only surveyed about 25 Mirage boats.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,237 Posts
How do you check out an engine during a survey anyway?
With my last boat I had some concerns about the 30 year old Perkins, so I hired a mechanic from St Catharines. He was excellent. He dealt Betas and Volvos (I think) but after his evaluation recommended that I keep the old 4.108. And he didn't charge me, because I had hired him to estimate an engine replacement!

It turned out he was right, I used the engine hard for several years and it never once gave me a problem. Mechanics seem to have a way of figuring these things out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
391 Posts
I guess we've had differen experiences. I've only surveyed about 25 Mirage boats.
Seems like it. Surprised at only 25 considering the large number of Mirage built boats around. They were the boat builder I knew best. Owned three of their boats myself and sailed countless miles on friends Mirages. Not the very best, but always a lot of boat for the money.

One thing I forgot to mention re the Mirage 33/35 - There were failures initially of the stem plate casting at bow - Most should by now have been upgraded using a kit Mirage supplied. It was a design fault in the original boats. I forget exact details, but I think it involved adding a U-bolt and some re-inforcing plates.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
391 Posts
With my last boat I had some concerns about the 30 year old Perkins, so I hired a mechanic from St Catharines. He was excellent. He dealt Betas and Volvos (I think) but after his evaluation recommended that I keep the old 4.108. And he didn't charge me, because I had hired him to estimate an engine replacement!

It turned out he was right, I used the engine hard for several years and it never once gave me a problem. Mechanics seem to have a way of figuring these things out.
Great that you found a good guy to check engine. I have been present at a couple of surveys of high end boats. In those cases, the surveyor did not check the engine. A second mechanical surveyor was brought in to check the main and generator diesels. That is fine for high value boats, but with 33 footers under $30k these days and for sale boats often sitting on hard, it is hard to get or afford an engine evaluation before making an offer. Engine condition can be put in as a condition of purchase with a hold back, I guess.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,237 Posts
No no. This boat was well under $30k. I only hired a mechanic, no surveyor. I felt confident I could figure out the hull myself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
391 Posts
No no. This boat was well under $30k. I only hired a mechanic, no surveyor. I felt confident I could figure out the hull myself.
Yes, I have and would do the same, but darned insurance companies want those surveys anyway :(

What I see as a problem, is a buyer hiring a surveyor to check out a boat, but not realizing that one of the most expensive parts, the engine, can't really be evaluated by many surveyors. That would in many cases require a mechanic to be hired that is knowledgeable when it comes to marine engines. Just like when buying a car, the engine is the thing you really want checked. Replacement could be 1/2 again of what was paid for boat.
 

·
Dirt Free
Joined
·
2,654 Posts
Seems like it. Surprised at only 25 considering the large number of Mirage built boats around. They were the boat builder I knew best. Owned three of their boats myself and sailed countless miles on friends Mirages. Not the very best, but always a lot of boat for the money.

One thing I forgot to mention re the Mirage 33/35 - There were failures initially of the stem plate casting at bow - Most should by now have been upgraded using a kit Mirage supplied. It was a design fault in the original boats. I forget exact details, but I think it involved adding a U-bolt and some re-inforcing plates.
Just for fun, no guessing on my part this time but actual numbers (I just counted my files) of some brands surveyed out of a total of 4,566 ...
Aloha - 24
Mirage - 30
CS - 197
C&C - 168
Beneteau - 84
Catalina - 65

The other 3,398 are made up of this list of Power Boats surveyed.
and this list of Sailboats Surveyed
 

·
Dirt Free
Joined
·
2,654 Posts
Here's a screen shot of some of my "M" files perhaps you know some of these Mirage's
 

Attachments

·
Dirt Free
Joined
·
2,654 Posts
Sorry here's a better one. Didn't realize a few of the Mirage's were blocked by that Windows thingy.
 

Attachments

·
Dirt Free
Joined
·
2,654 Posts
If you are asking me, I haven't got a clue.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top