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This winter I definitely need to replace my standing rigging. I was at my local home depot and noticed that they carry stainless steel wire rope the size and style that is appropriate for my boat. I need to save money as much as possible and was thinking I could just buy the ends from a marine supplier but buy the wire rope in bulk from my home depot and put them together myself. I am sure I can physically do it and are wondering if there is something I'm overlooking. I can get a 250 ft roll of stainless steel wire rope for $79. The ends are going to cost much more than the wire rope. Also looking for someplace to acquire the ends for as little money as possible. The boat is a 1977 26ft trailer sailor, fractional rig, used exclusively on a fresh water lake. Any advise would be much appreciated.
 

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I assume you are talking about a product like this:
Everbilt 3/16 in. x 125 ft. Stainless Steel Wire Rope-13950 at The Home Depot

Standing rigging is normally 1x19 stainless cable. The stuff at Home Depot is much more flexible and intended for low-tension uses like building deck railings.

Additionally the proper wire isn't that much more expensive. The 5/32" 1x19 cable used on your boat should be about 50 cents per foot. The expensive part is in the ends and the tooling to put it all together. Buying everything in one place and installing it yourself can probably save you money by having someone else do the swaging of the ends onto the cable.
 

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This winter I definitely need to replace my standing rigging. I was at my local home depot and noticed that they carry stainless steel wire rope the size and style that is appropriate for my boat. I need to save money as much as possible and was thinking I could just buy the ends from a marine supplier but buy the wire rope in bulk from my home depot and put them together myself. I am sure I can physically do it and are wondering if there is something I'm overlooking. I can get a 250 ft roll of stainless steel wire rope for $79. The ends are going to cost much more than the wire rope. Also looking for someplace to acquire the ends for as little money as possible. The boat is a 1977 26ft trailer sailor, fractional rig, used exclusively on a fresh water lake. Any advise would be much appreciated.
Frankly, considering you have no way of knowing the source or quality of the material, I think that would be a false economy considering how inexpensive good 1x19 wire rope is from a reliable provider such as the SailNet Store (above left) or Defender. See 1 x 19 WIRE - Type 316SS and Marine Wire Cable on Sale. Further, considering the cost of the connections, I suspect that you might find that sending your rigging off to be matched/replaced by a reliable supplier such as JSI (aka Island Nautical) might prove no more costly in the long run. Further, if the wire needs replacing, I suspect the rigging screws, pins and toggles might need a do-over as well.

FWIW...
 

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Good 316 stainless wire is cheap... don't but crap that will make your mast fall!

If you want to rig as cheaply and easily as possible, just use nicopress sleeves with the best quality wire. Riggingonly sells top grade wire for cheap. Then do a proper crack inspection on the rest of your hardware and keep anything that doesn't have cracks, corrosion, wear, or bending fatigue.
 

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Another option would be to use Dynex-Dux (or the NE ropes equivalent using sk-75). I made my backstay out of the stuff and I know you can get emergency shroud kits of the same (via Coligo marine, I think). You'd just have to splice in some thimbles and you'd save on the cable and all swaged fittings (the fittings are actually the most expensive). Just an idea...

Edit- double ck the price-- the more I look at the cost of cable, wire might be cheaper (although the fittings will cost quite a bit more if you have to replace those.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Nicopress sleeves sounds like the way to go and is how my rigging is now. That will also keep the extra hardware to a minimum. Most of the turnbuckles have already been replaced so I guess I just need to shop around the wire rope, obviously using the Depot wire rope is a bad idea. Thanks for the quick response guys.
 

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A new set of standing rigging for that boat should be about $300. I replaced my Back Stay on my Mac Venture 222 about 3 years ago and the whole stay was about $50. The only thing I had to do was Crimp on the the Stainless eye (used the crimp @ west marine for free I prefer to have the professional do it and then me install it. How much are you really going to save? The price difference of you making it and a professional rigger is nominal when you factor in the quality of what he can do. I never had concern about the swaged fitting at the top of the mast. In my opinion it would be better to drop the mast and send a rigger the rigging and have them redo it for you.
 

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This is a perfect example of a professional not understanding new materials. Dux is wholy unsutable for sheets, and most working lines onboard because it is incredibly stiff, and requires bending radiuses more like wire than traditional line. It is however perfect for rigging, thou unlike wire which is sized for strength, Dux rigging is sized to control creep.

The Open 60's that are using Dux rigging are putting 50,000psi of hydrolic compression on their masts and it's working fine.
 

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Dux is a good material for some things. But it does stretch a little and there is still the creep issue. These are two separate things.

Dux is pre-stretched heat set dyneema. It's a brand name. There are others on the market. NER is also making their own heat set pre-stretched SK75 and I believe the industry will move towards 78 and 90.

For cost, stick with wire and find a local rigger who needs a bit of work. NEVER skimp on standing rigging. The liability alone of dropping a rig will far outway any cost savings.

I read that article and it was interesting they suggested dux for a spin halyard. Even on grand prix boats, the loads on a spin halyard can’t justify dux. I do believe that they can use it for sheets, as the initial stiffness is pretty bad, it softens up with use. A better application for sheet would be SK-90. And it’s not super pricey like Dux.
 

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One more thing, if you're looking for very low stretch sheets, go with vectran. PBO is way too expensive, and standing rigging is going Gucci with carbon cable.

Vectran, however, doesn't like UV, so do not plan on stripping it.
 

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Most rigging shops nowadays use machine swaging which is cheap, and dangerous crap compared to the do it yourself options (nicopress, eye splices, hi-mod terminals, etc.)

I know they work if done properly and inspected/replaced regularly but it just drives me crazy (as an engineer) to put stainless into a form where it holds the metal inside a moist oxygen free pocket ripe for crevice corrosion, and exits at an abrupt edge where it will work harden.

Whenever I look at derelict boats in the marina, the ones with neglected nicopress rigs are still up, and the ones with old swages are dimasted, with either cracks in the swages or broken strands sticking out right where they were work hardened.

My newly purchased boat has good condition machine swage rigging, and I'll be replacing them with hi-mod terminals anyway for peace of mind.
 

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This is a perfect example of a professional not understanding new materials. Dux is wholy unsutable for sheets, and most working lines onboard because it is incredibly stiff, and requires bending radiuses more like wire than traditional line. It is however perfect for rigging, thou unlike wire which is sized for strength, Dux rigging is sized to control creep.

The Open 60's that are using Dux rigging are putting 50,000psi of hydrolic compression on their masts and it's working fine.
I think I may be getting some mechanical creep in my own backstay. Most of it is in the regular dyneema that I've got spliced into the 48:1 control lines, but there is a wee bit of creep in Dux, and that is why I think riggers may shun the stuff. As long as you're aware of that, I think you could adjust it frequently, and it should last a long time once it's set. And yes, to think you could use Dux for sheets or halyards is silly. On first inspection, you'd know right away that it wouldn't work.
 

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I think I may be getting some mechanical creep in my own backstay. Most of it is in the regular dyneema that I've got spliced into the 48:1 control lines, but there is a wee bit of creep in Dux, and that is why I think riggers may shun the stuff. As long as you're aware of that, I think you could adjust it frequently, and it should last a long time once it's set. And yes, to think you could use Dux for sheets or halyards is silly. On first inspection, you'd know right away that it wouldn't work.
Irunbird,

We are Farr off topic...

Anyway, what load are you carrying on your backstay, and what size Dux are you using. Generally standing rigging is sized to result in 1/8" a year of creep. Assuming even a moderately reasonable rigging set up the rig should be able to account for this creep easily.

As an example 7mm Dux has a breaking strength of ~15,000lbs, and would generally be used to replace 1/4 wire with a breaking strength of ~8,000lbs. But at reasonable pretensions is just a fraction larger 10% the weight! and will creep in the .1"/year range.
 

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Farr? Actually, the topic was originally about replacing shrouds- I was just correcting what I had originally suggested. I have no idea what the load is on my backstay, because I've never measured it. It's gotta be huge, though- 48:1 on a double spreader rig. The size of SK75 is indeed 7mm, and there definitely is a small amount of creep, since I can now easily reach the thimble with the backstay cascade that I regularly connect/disconnect when hoisting the boat out of the water each time we sail. I'm guessing the creep is minimal- probably about 1/2" (guessing) for the 30' or so of Dux that goes up to the masthead crane. I've sailed quite a bit in the upper medium wind range (my own term, but around 15-20 mph) and store the boat with the backstay tensioned about 50% to steady the rig- the idea being to get the system to completely set itself. I've already had to shorten one of the braided dyneema lines in the backstay cascade, and I'm about to do another to regain purchase that was lost in dyneema stretch as well as that tiny bit of creep further up in the Dux. My point was- that if he uses Dux (or NE's version of SK75), he avoids the cost of all those fittings (which I just replaced on my own boat this year- they are the main cost of replacing standing rigging), then he could use Dux-- he'll just have to adjust it after a few times out. On a 26' boat, that is an attractive alternative and I'd probably consider it for lake sailing.
 

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Your least expensive option would probably be to remove your existing rigging and send it off to someone like RiggingOnly or Defender to have new shrouds and stays made up to match. The do-it-yourself fittings are expensive, and you'll probably end up spending more (and still having to do the work yourself) compared to having an online rigger make them up for you.
 

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Boyer,

If your boat has been a fresh water boat, and already has nico-press I'd hazzard a guess that the rigging is not original and has already been replaced.

That said, I doubt it needs to be replaced, most riggers I've talked to would likely give it a pass - after and inspection (which is less expensive than replacing).

I'm doing my rigging this year - even tho the inspection of the 28 year old stuff found not a single problem.
 

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Boyer,


I'm doing my rigging this year - even tho the inspection of the 28 year old stuff found not a single problem.
I replaced mine when the boat was 30 years old, and also had no signs of needing to be replaced. People here said to replace every 10 years, so I replaced them. It looks like the rigging is way oversize and or over built, like everything was done back then. I lost one of my chain plates in a 30+ wind and did not know it till the next day!

Edit: Christian.hess...I used Rigging Only http://www.riggingonly.com/ as well. They really know their stuff.
 

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im doing mine as we speak here in el salvador...I have taken down measured and reinstalled the stays Ill be replacing

my intermediate stays have cracked swages, banana shaped and my original closed turnbuckles(on many 70s boats) have crevice corrosion and cracks

now while I do have an issue with these stupid closed turnbuckles I dont have any issue with correctly installed swages, and most mechanical terminations...my boat currently has norsemans on rigging already replaced by p.o.

I will be using rigging only too...

while Im at it ill be replacing chainplates too

I had 1 cracked forward chainplate and one main chainplate that is pitted but has not failed

one would think this boat was either raced really hard or came this close to a dismasting, if I have a chance Ill post pics of the cracked swages! scary as hell!

whatever the case maybe Im replacing pertinent items that need most attention first.

rigging is most definetly one of those DIY jobs that you can take pride in...

cheers
 
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