[sirtang]

This is a given right? Anybody that has a boat tied at a pier that is selling should expect that the boat gets hauled before purchasing?

What tips would you give to have a mechanic diagnose a non working diesel inboard? Would a surveyor take care of that as part of inspection? Would the mechanic need to boat hauled out to assess the repairs or would they be able to do it with the boat in the water?

 

[Faster]

Generally a haulout is part of the pre-purchase survey routine.

Surveyors will rarely asses an engine beyond physical appearance. Engine repairs should be 'do-able' while in the water, as would an assessment or estimate. Some sail drive scenarios may require hauling for some of the work. Dripless seals can be problematic if the engine is removed 'in the water'.

Diesels are pretty simple..

 

[overbored]

what size boat? what price range? inboard, so 28' and up? non running engine so older boat?
the way it works is you agree on a price and make a deposit, then you have the option to haul the boat and have a survey. if you still want and it is safe to operate then you can sea trial. all at the buyers expense. This can vary on less expensive boats. non running engine to most people would be a sign to run away but if you know engines you could get a good deal. I would subtract at least 5k for non running depending on the engine model and make new one start at 15k installed

 

[ccriders]

You don't have any "rights" to the boat until an offer to purchase is made with sufficient provisions for inspection and other provisos. Whether the engine is included in the survey will depend on the qualifications of the surveyor. Generally the engine is included in a separate survey conducted by a specifically qualified surveyor.
I would treat a "non-working diesel" as no engine at all and discount its replacement cost in the offering price.
John

 

[Minnewaska]

Yup, you need a specialized diesel inspection. Even then, they don't typically provide much certainty. There is no way one could offer a fixed survey price to tell you what is wrong with a inop motor. They may figure it out in a few minutes or take an entire weekend of disassembly.

Very strange scenario that a boat is being offered with an inop inboard. First thing I ask myself is "what else wasn't properly maintained, even though it might be working at the moment" Always look for her story.

You will certainly haul the boat out of the water for survey inspection, at your expense, after you have an accepted offer on a boat. It's healthy to expect to pay for at least one you reject before finding the right boat. Hopefully not.

 

[eherlihy]

This is a given right? Anybody that has a boat tied at a pier that is selling should expect that the boat gets hauled before purchasing?

No, nothing is "a given," everything is negotiable. A common condition of any offer is that the boat will be hauled and surveyed (or launched and surveyed) at the buyer's expense.

What tips would you give to have a mechanic diagnose a non working diesel inboard? Would a surveyor take care of that as part of inspection? Would the mechanic need to boat hauled out to assess the repairs or would they be able to do it with the boat in the water?

I would have the surveyor verify the make and model engine. I would then verify whether or not the engine will turn over. If it won't turn over, then you may have use for it as a mooring.

Then you should preform a compression test on all cylinders.

 

[pdqaltair]

For me, A sea trial on a breezy day is a requirement. Does it leak with the rail under? How does she steer and tack? The motion? How the does the sail handling gear work under load? Are the sails blown out?

There are too many boats out there for me to take the risk. Of course, the owner or broker could sail it out.

Pretty dumb way to sell a boat. Expect other problems.

 

[sirtang]

Thanks for the helpful replies.

I'm learning so this is only good practice at this point.

I'm reading through the Boat Inspection Trip Tips as a guide, are there other good recent posts to check out?

* The engine won't turn over. It could be a replacement situation for whoever buys it (if not me).

* This one is a 1980 Pearson 30', ~$6K, I haven't done enough research to tell if this has been discounted or not for the engine.

* $15K for a replacement engine? I didn't think it would be that much, I guess the rule to go buy is to triple the equipment cost? I guess that is a rule of thumb for pretty much all work, it just seems like a lot of labor for an install/retrofit to me, but I'm clueless

* How do you tell if the sails are blown out (newb question).

 

[capecodda]

I don't know the yards in your area directly, I can tell you that nearby in RI and MA you'd be paying $90 something/hour for labor. Let's round up to $100 to make the math easy. Let's say 2 person weeks effort to re-power. Why so much, take the old engine out, probably throw out the wiring, probably move the engine mounts which are rotted so you'll get new ones and need to glass them in to fit the new power plant, you'll want new wet muffler (the old ones rotted) and exhaust. You'll want a new control panel. While you're messing around you'll find the thru hull for the engine intake needs to be replaced, you're there anyway so, and some bulkhead will be in the way, and you'll notice that the fuel tank is full of crud so you'll want to replace it, the water separator filter is old, replace that too, might as well replace the fuel line, how old are the batteries......

You get the idea. 80 hours, at 100/hr = 8K. Another 7K worth of parts, you're easily at 15K (not sure what an engine this size costs, but you'll need a surprising amount of other stuff too).

Unless you love it, and it's perfect in every other way, find one with an engine that works and a higher ask. Particularly for new buyers, recommend you find a boat that's regularly used by a meticulous owner, you'll pay more up front but you'll save in the end. The only people who beat this equation are skilled and persistent do it yourselfers. I'm sure one or more of them will chime in after reading this.

 

[eherlihy]

1979 Pearson 30 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com $3500 - motor installation needs to be finished.
1981 Pearson Flyer- project boat Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com $4200 - Outboard
1981 Pearson 30 Flyer Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com $7500

 

[eherlihy]

The above took me about 1 minute. If your budget is in the $6k range, you best bets are; Craigslist, Sailboatlistings.com, and SailingTexas.com

 

[sirtang]

I don't know the yards in your area directly, I can tell you that nearby in RI and MA you'd be paying $90 something/hour for labor. Let's round up to $100 to make the math easy. Let's say 2 person weeks effort to re-power. Why so much, take the old engine out, probably throw out the wiring, probably move the engine mounts which are rotted so you'll get new ones and need to glass them in to fit the new power plant, you'll want new wet muffler (the old ones rotted) and exhaust. You'll want a new control panel. While you're messing around you'll find the thru hull for the engine intake needs to be replaced, you're there anyway so, and some bulkhead will be in the way, and you'll notice that the fuel tank is full of crud so you'll want to replace it, the water separator filter is old, replace that too, might as well replace the fuel line, how old are the batteries......

You get the idea. 80 hours, at 100/hr = 8K. Another 7K worth of parts, you're easily at 15K (not sure what an engine this size costs, but you'll need a surprising amount of other stuff too).

Unless you love it, and it's perfect in every other way, find one with an engine that works and a higher ask. Particularly for new buyers, recommend you find a boat that's regularly used by a meticulous owner, you'll pay more up front but you'll save in the end. The only people who beat this equation are skilled and persistent do it yourselfers. I'm sure one or more of them will chime in after reading this.

Agreed! This analysis helps me understand why the other Pearson in the area is $12K

 

[Scotty C-M]

On a boat this size, the engine is the most expensive piece of gear. Really, find one that the engine works and the boat shows good maintenance. You'll be glad you did.

 

[BarryL]

Hey,

I don't believe a surveyor would do ANYTHING with an inoperative motor other than record the serial number and make / model. It is the owner or broker responsibility to make the engine run, or just state the engine is inoperative and make an allowance in the price for such.

If the engine does run, then the surveyor may test it for things like operating temperature, exhaust color, max engine RPM range, condition of transmission, max boat speed, and that sort of stuff.

Anything else require an engine specialist and permission from the owner or broker. For example, if you want to perform a compression test, you may need permission from the owner because you will be removing parts from the engine and there are liability questions if things break during this work.

Barry

 

[TakeFive]

I agree that there's a lot of risk with any first-time buyer buying a boat with a non-working motor.

But concluding that a motor that won't turn over requires a new motor is a huge stretch. The question is, how do you figure out whether it's just bad starter motor? You might do well to hire an engine mechanic to diagnose for you. If he says it's a simple fix, maybe you can drive a hard bargain and get yourself a good buy.

 

[pdqaltair]

* How do you tell if the sails are blown out (newb question).

It's about shape in the wind. Just because a sail hoists does not mean it can pull the boat to windward. Old sails get stretched.

Sounds to me like whatever boat you get, you ought to bribe an experienced sailor to go for a sail for the sea trials.

 

[sirtang]

I'm not going to be buying anything soon, this is all about learning the culture and how it all works. I'm also trying to get my head around the fact that I would be buying a conveyance that is over 20 years old and that is sort of common for this type of thing.

 

[Stumble]

I agree that there's a lot of risk with any first-time buyer buying a boat with a non-working motor.

But concluding that a motor that won't turn over requires a new motor is a huge stretch. The question is, how do you figure out whether it's just bad starter motor? You might do well to hire an engine mechanic to diagnose for you. If he says it's a simple fix, maybe you can drive a hard bargain and get yourself a good buy.

For me, if the engine won't start then I would always assume it needs replacing. I may make a bid conditional on the current owner getting the motor working, I may even make a big subject to me hiring a mechanic to fix it. But if a major piece of gear doesn't work, and the current owner won't or can't fix it, then I will assume it can't be fixed until proven otherwise.

As for sails... Just assume they will need replacing. You may get lucky and get a year or two out of them, but sails have a finite and relatively short lifetime. Figure 7 years for a set of heavy weight offshore crusing sails, but more like 5 for daysailing ones.

 

[BarryL]

Hey,

When you are used to buying things like cars, considering something that is over 20 years old is very strange. When you think about houses, then 20 years isn't that old.

In reality, boats are in between. A 20 year old boat that is in good condition, isn't really 20 years old because components will have been replaced on a regular basis. When buying an older house you would want to know when the roof was replaced, the kitchen updated, and that sort of thing. With a boat you want to know when the sails were replaced, the standing rigging done, the engine maintenance schedule, ports changed, and that stuff.

Fiberglass and lead seem to last forever, so that's not much of concern. Of course the hull condition regarding gelcoat or paint matters, as does the mast, boom, wiring, head, et al.

Welcome to the world of old boat buying, where every visit to a potential boat is an adventure!

Barry

I'm not going to be buying anything soon, this is all about learning the culture and how it all works. I'm also trying to get my head around the fact that I would be buying a conveyance that is over 20 years old and that is sort of common for this type of thing.