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single Mom, single hander, single paycheck.

20K views 63 replies 32 participants last post by  Minnewaska 
#1 ·
Okay. I am seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. My daughter is a senior in H.S. and my son just started. That means only 4 years left of having to live in the high-rent (good school) district. Which leads me to my next address: boat.

I have a good bit of sailing experience (though admittedly I am a bit rusty). I sailed before I walked, cruised New England each summer on my parents' boats (Allied Luders 33 sloop and Frank Kinney Pipe Dream 37 sloop) and did the whole dinghy racing curcuit thing on Blue Jays, Fire Balls, Lightnings, etc.

That was then This is now: I haven't sailed in the past ten or so years and never really had experience skippering or maintaining a larger boat. I am currently taking Power Squadron courses to get beck into the swing of things, brush up pn navigation and learn about boat systems and am researching which boats would make good coastal and possibly off-shore cruisers.

Here are some of my requirements:
-I have to be able to single hand it.
-I don't have a ton of money to spend.
-I want a good, solid boat that can see me through a storm.

Here are some boats I am considering:
Allied Luders 33
Niagara 35
Rival 34
Sabre 34
Wauquiez Pretorian 35
Dickerson 37

Any thoughts, tips, suggestions?

-Susan
 
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#27 ·
Starter boat vs final boat

Hats off to you Susan. I wish I could get my daughters as interested in sailing as you are.

Since you've been out of the sailing scene for a while my suggestion would be to start smaller and use this smaller boat as an assessment tool for your final choice.

I've owned a Morgan 30//2 since 1979 and like it but if I could rewind I should have bought a Catalina. A Catalina 30 would have been a good choice for a couple of reasons.

1. There's a lot of them around so picking up a used one would be easy.
2. They still are very popular and the company is still in business, getting replacement parts should be reasonable.
3. THey are good sailing boat and with the right equipment decent racers. Our local across Lake Michigan race (Queen's Cup www.ssyc.org) was won some years ago by a Catalina 30 (Rag Doll). I believe that the shortest boat to ever win...most of the winners have been 40'+ in length.
4. With a lot of them around there are a lot of information sources avaiable via the owners and you know all sailors are helpful.
5. Because they are popular, resale is easier.

If I had to pick one for you to start with I would recommend a 27' or 30' Catalina.
 
#29 ·
Good to see you sticking with the dream. If you like open water, as in coastal salty open water, I would recommend a different boat than if you wished to go offshore. If you want to voyage...I'd have one range of suggestions, but if you wish to merely club race or weekend gunkhole or even liveaboard, I'd have others.

PBZeer's suggestion of an Ontario 32 is one of the few boats I would recommend that is good for all of the above for a single-hander. I personally think that 32-33 feet is around the sweet spot for single-handing, because it's big enough to take the real sea, but small enough to work without getting hurt or overwhelmed. A Niagara 35 is good, but they can get pricey because Canadians are huge fans of them and our dollar parity now means we can scoop up American-owned boats at lower-than-local prices.

A Bristol or a Pearson or a Tartan are all good choices for coastal, up to "rough, near-gale coastal". But if you are going offshore, check out the Contessa 32 or even the dreaded Westsail 32...dreaded because they are frankly pokey boats in light air, but they are very difficult to kill (see "A Perfect Storm"...the real story!) and they are "get you home" boats.
 
#30 ·
Okay. I am seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. My daughter is a senior in H.S. and my son just started. That means only 4 years left of having to live in the high-rent (good school) district. Which leads me to my next address: boat.

I have a good bit of sailing experience (though admittedly I am a bit rusty). I sailed before I walked, cruised New England each summer on my parents' boats (Allied Luders 33 sloop and Frank Kinney Pipe Dream 37 sloop) and did the whole dinghy racing curcuit thing on Blue Jays, Fire Balls, Lightnings, etc.

That was then This is now: I haven't sailed in the past ten or so years and never really had experience skippering or maintaining a larger boat. I am currently taking Power Squadron courses to get beck into the swing of things, brush up pn navigation and learn about boat systems and am researching which boats would make good coastal and possibly off-shore cruisers.

Here are some of my requirements:
-I have to be able to single hand it.
-I don't have a ton of money to spend.
-I want a good, solid boat that can see me through a storm.

Here are some boats I am considering:
Allied Luders 33
Niagara 35
Rival 34
Sabre 34
Wauquiez Pretorian 35
Dickerson 37

Any thoughts, tips, suggestions?

-Susan
Hmm, you really want a boat that large for single handing? I have a beautiful Islander 36 that I am selling precisely because it is difficult to single hand- unless I am to put in a lot of $$ to set her up for single handing. I am choosing a heavier small cruiser in the 20' range.

Regards,
Heidi
 
#33 ·
Heidi, really? Sad you have to sell her. Seems to me you can single hand her if you have some logically applied skills that will offset the need for muscle.
 
#34 ·
I've been following this thread because I too plan to move up from my 25 footer someday and will be looking for all the boat I can handle alone.

What I don't understand is, just what in particular is so strenuous that it would be the determining factor, or breaking point? Is it the winching of the jibs? Because I have never used my winch handles for mine (granted my boats not large). I do winch the halyards up hard with a handle, but the head sails I prefer to luff and after taking in what I want quickly by hand (with a few turns around the winch), I veer off to refill them. If I'm beating to windward, I just tuck the jib inside the stanchions and steer to trim, getting me as close to the wind as possible. The only reason I can think of to winch in a full sail, would be to be able to stay on course, while someone else is at the helm. But it's a matter of seconds to steer into the wind and back, so it really doesn't slow me down much at all. There must be something I'm missing here.

I love the idea of a yawl or ketch set up for a larger boat, keeping the sails smaller and allowing so much balance control. Of course in that case, I would have to do the "handleless" winching twice! Maybe at that point self steering would be a better option?
 
#35 ·
It's more about timing with the head sail Charlie, but you will need winches on a larger boat. Pulling on the jib sheets is a quick way to get tired and sore. (this I know)
Raising the main on my boat isn't that difficult but I have a LARGE turning block at the mast base which seems to help.. small wheeled blocks really add effort instead of reducing it (imho)

A wheel or tiller lock is a big help! auto pilot is a real big plus too!
 
#37 ·
"Pulling on the jib sheets is a quick way to get tired and sore."

Even when luffing?

Now the tiller lock idea I like and I should get that going next year. But what would you say is the main reason a boat would be too large to single hand? That's the part I just can't get my head around. I've often thought anything over forty feet would be too much, but why? If I could handle a forty footer, why not a forty five? I know eventually the sail size alone would be overwhelming, but I just don't know how to figure the breaking point.
 
#38 ·
A 32 I can manhandle, like if the main and boom are disagreeing with me and they want to go port while I want them to go starboard while we're flaking the sail and a gust zips it off.

A 36 or 38....I'd have to be faster and smarter than the boat, because I'm just not strong enough to use brute force on it anymore. Sometimes, sure, but sometimes, not. Wouldn't stop me from taking one out if that's what I wanted to do, but sometimes you just want to know that if all else fails, you can pick the damn thing up and carry it home.

Rigging, cockpit layout, balance, reliable engine, all would affect the choice. Kinda reminds me of punching out the horse in "Blazing Saddles" though.<G>
 
#40 ·
The loads are higher on everything, that's the limiting factor. I went from 26' to 38' and there is no throwing the boom over on a jibe, or NOT using winches on jib sheets anymore.

Not letting the boat get ahead of you is key. Having a good rigging layout is another, as is an autopilot or lashing the tiller if you must. It IS a tad different but you can definitely compensate if you do it on a mid twenties boat. There's a learning curve, but not to bad.

I'm not sure what the ultimate barrier limiting factor is or would be. I guess if you had the money just about anything is possible.


John
 
#41 ·
One of the limiters is whether you can handle the weight of the sails. For single handling, you really need a roller furler for the jib and either lazy jacks or a furler for the main. However, the real issue is when they tear or jam or you need them down for an emergency. At best, we can only drop ours and lash them to the deck or lifelines. Fortunately, we have room between the boom and cabin top to get the main down, but not all do. It takes two people and calm winds at the dock to properly flake and fold them.
 
#42 ·
Thanks John and Minnew,
All great ideas to consider! I sure can relate to throwing the jib over by hand when jibing, as I hate surprises! I understand a larger boat would require more thinking and less muscle. But as I get older, I assume will be a natural progression.

So to sum up thus far; would I be dreaming to think in terms of single handing a forty five footer with roller furling, lazy jacks and auto pilot? Would I be smarter to go with a yawl rig? I'm still thinking the limit might be a forty footer.

By the way, while I'm only dreaming after all, lets make it a Hinckley!

One last thing; Why are some people so concerned about the age of the post? If we are enjoying it, does it matter if it's twenty years old?
 
#43 · (Edited)
I know a guy that single hands a 44 ft boat, it's all in how she's rigged and how proficient the skipper is. Find one you like and see if they will let you take the sails down by yourself on the dock. That will answer your question.

As far as replying to old posts, it's generally advised to start a new one if you would like to discuss a topic. However, anyone that wants to resurrect an old thread that contains information relevant to the discussion they would like to have is fine by me, but most seem to be done by new members by accident. If intentional, one can put a link to the old thread in your new one.

You will note, however, that this thread was resurrected by answering someone's question that was asked 4 years ago. That is a common newbie mistake, as they arent used to seeing when the post was made to know that their answer isn't relevant to the inquirer anymore. In fact, the original poster, whose question was being answered, hasn't even been signed on the forum since Dec '07.

I would agree that some get their shorts too tied up in a knot over this, so hopefully, those of us that point it out do so in a constructive tone. This supposed to be a fun place.

Edit: I coincidentally stumbled upon an example. Here is a new member's first post ever, responding to a request for deliver crew from 18 months ago. That ship has sailed.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/crew-wanted/63778-delivery-skipper-wanted.html
 
#45 ·
I'd love to talk with the guy on the 44 footer!

But you have brought up a very good idea to try handling the sails first, if possible.

Do you ever single hand yours? Is it a 54' Jeanneau?
Yes, it is a 54' Jeanneau. I have single handed my boat, sort of. For giggles and practice, I've taken her out, set sails, tacked, jibed, etc. However, my wife has actually been aboard and there, for when I've had enough. We've practiced single handed emergencies, but the best we would do with jammed or ripped sails is drop them and lash to the deck. We have every line coming to the cockpit, but the cockpit is fairly large, so getting from the helm to the lines coming through the cabin top organizers is an exercise. The autopilot better be operative. Both the main and head sail are each on furlers as well.
 
#48 ·
I realize that the original post was years ago, but now that you are discussing the limits to single-handing, I thought I would chime in. I started with a Catalina 30 as my first boat, which I single-handed all the time with no problems. My current love is a Catalina 36. She is a lot more boat than the C30 was, but still managable single-handing. I do have a headsail furler, Dutchman reefing on the main, an auto-pilot, and all lines led to the cockpit, so she is set up for it.
Anyway, the key to single-handing any boat is to do it, a lot, in all conditions. I get better each time I take her out and have been in 35+ winds by myself. I know, probably not too smart, but definitely doable. The problem that I found with big winds was when I wanted to furl the sails. Much more work, but man did she fly! :D

Cheers, Bill
 
#50 ·
I COULD single hand my boat. However, the being fast and thinking ahead thing is not very relaxing. Because you have to think of everything...and ahead, prepare for the worst etc. I single handed a 40' boat. It had power winches, self tacking jib, in-boom furling, autohelm with a little remote you can wear around your neck to offset rudder angle if needed. I felt damned near relaxed on that boat.....except coming into the slip. My boat does not come with these "labor saving" devices. I do have Autohelm. But If i have to dump the main in a sudden 42 kt gust then I have to get my leg around the wheel (or jump up on the cockpit seats) and move forward to the mainsheet in a cam cleat near the companionway. When I single hand a small boat, it just plain feels manageable. :)
 
#51 ·
Thank you all for such wonderful responses!

I am starting to get it. (I think) You can handle a lot, but how badly do you want to?

In the future, I plan to do some winter live-a-board sailing, if all goes well. I'll have my wife with me to help take the helm, but I hate to count on her always being able, as she is handicapped. The trade off in more work for a larger boat seems like a trade I'd be up for. So at this point, I'm still dreaming of a 40' Hinckley. (maybe a bit larger)

In the meantime, I couldn't be happier with my Morgan 24/25. (she swells to 25', when she wants to impress the other boats)

Thanks again!
 
#52 ·
I've got one word for you, anchoring.
Your single handling your 45 foot boat the engine dies you have no windless and you have to strike the sails and drop the hook.
Your going to be busy.
 
#53 ·
Dare I say, if your heart is set on living aboard a Hinckley, you need a bigger version to accommodate your required living space? I love the lines and quality of a Hinkley (and it's logo gets attention at the marina), however, maximizing living quarters per foot of LOA is not their value proposition.
 
#54 ·
I think we should keep this post going until the OP gets back from her 4 year cruise.:D

I my opinion, the limit to single handing a large boat is what will happen when things go wrong. Can you hold the bow line when wind starts blowing her off the pier? Can you get a couple hundred feet of chain off the bottom if the windlass fails? Can you get that huge genoa down in a sudden squal? Realize, this really is just opinion. Some feel uncomfortable relying on the mechanical things things that surround us on big sailboats. Some are more worried about the large sea in a small boat. It is all priorities.
 
#55 ·
Dear Susan,

I just bought an Allied Luders 33. I think that could be a great boat for you, especially if you are already familiar with it. I love ours, and feel good about singlehanding it. I have a partner in the boat, and I can say for sure that that made a huge difference when we hauled the boat. Two people flushing the systems, cleaning up, and covering it and worrying about it worked well and made me more comfortable that I had all my bases covered. Also expensive repairs get 50% cheaper.

The Luders is pokey, but easy to handle, rock solid and they can be surprisingly affordable. In fact, you should look at the all the Allied boats, which tend to run on the cheaper side of things but are still very able. I see Seawinds for under $30k (I don't know much about them).

My partner, who is saltier than I, says, the key to a good partnership is not sailing with your partner. We divide up the time and when it's your turn with the boat, you own the boat.

Also if you think you will be singlehanding a lot, get a good auto pilot. I use that much more than I thought I would, even with crew aboard. But it's great for running up and setting the sails or untangling a situation if there's a problem. Good luck.
 
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