SailNet Community banner
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, so I put the new seal in and it looks good.
Then I reassembled the steering. WTF!! On port rudder the top of the rudder hits the hull. :confused: (O'Day 40 spade rudder)
On starboard rudder it clears nicely.

Check that the rudder post has dropped down properly so the radial drive wheel is on the nylon spacer on top of the tube? Yup.

The steering radial drive wheel was reassembled with the pin through the stainless post so it cant have moved.

The only conclusion I can draw is that they bent the rudder post when they put it back in :hothead

Any other possibilities??
 

·
One of None
Hunter 34
Joined
·
8,628 Posts
maybe the cable is too short on that side. Is the rudder centered when the wheel is?
 

·
Registered
Corsair 24
Joined
·
4,594 Posts
sure sounds like its bent!

man I feel for you...you need to start thinking on ways to defend yourself against these guys and get your money back and boat fixed properly
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Not a cable adjustment. It doesn't even hit the rudder stop on that side because it hits the hull first.

I was watching and they used the Sea-Lift to pick it up enough the let the rudder drop down so that the prop shaft would sneak past the rudder post.
When they lowered the boat back down a couple of the yard workers were helping the guy working on the boat to line up the shaft, but they had a block underneath and it looked like it came down on it at one point.

In hindsight I should have videoed it but I thought it was a simple thing to do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I've had requests for the name of the service company but I don't have enough posts to send private mail.
I'll hold off telling the list until the bill has been settled. So far they want $2880 for repairs, but maybe they'll be reasonable. :laugher

I chose the marina partially because they have a fancy boat lift that doesn't use slings. We were in a marina that had a Travelift and saw numerous instances of slings lifting on prop shafts. I wonder how many of those boats ended up with a bent shaft. :(

The rudder is bent slightly but they won't admit responsibility because there is no visible damage to the fiberglass portion of the rudder assy. When I ask how else it could have been bent I get a blank look and some mumbling that something else must be causing the binding. I loosened all the bolts on the radial drive and it helped a tiny bit but it is clearly changed from before. It used to touch very slightly on the other side, not enough to mark the gel coat, now it clears that side by 3mm.

I don't have the finances to hire a lawyer and don't really want to go to small claims court but don't know what other choices I might have. I assume the yard won't splash my boat if I haven't settled with the repair shop.
 

·
Registered
Corsair 24
Joined
·
4,594 Posts
I've had requests for the name of the service company but I don't have enough posts to send private mail.
I'll hold off telling the list until the bill has been settled. So far they want $2880 for repairs, but maybe they'll be reasonable. :laugher

I chose the marina partially because they have a fancy boat lift that doesn't use slings. We were in a marina that had a Travelift and saw numerous instances of slings lifting on prop shafts. I wonder how many of those boats ended up with a bent shaft. :(

The rudder is bent slightly but they won't admit responsibility because there is no visible damage to the fiberglass portion of the rudder assy. When I ask how else it could have been bent I get a blank look and some mumbling that something else must be causing the binding. I loosened all the bolts on the radial drive and it helped a tiny bit but it is clearly changed from before. It used to touch very slightly on the other side, not enough to mark the gel coat, now it clears that side by 3mm.

I don't have the finances to hire a lawyer and don't really want to go to small claims court but don't know what other choices I might have. I assume the yard won't splash my boat if I haven't settled with the repair shop.
dude is everyone around there on crack or something?(part in bold, name names! help fellow boaters and sailors in your area!)

any proffesional yard with a half brained travelift operator first thing he asks when hauling a new to him boat is where is the prop shaft and whats the keel rudder design...

then you say keel stops starts here...shaft is here, rudder or skeg is here and they throw the straps in the water and tie them together fore and aft so they dont slip etc

how is it that you have seen a boat(s) being hauled with a strap pushing up against the shaft and that somehow is commonplace around there?

not even here in the jungle are people that careless!

name names, screw them...and fight for your money

no way on hell pay the 2800

sorry thats what I would do.

:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
No, it's in Vancouver, relatively new and the service company moved here from Granville. I haven't asked many people for recommendations but usually they recommend places on the island.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
311 Posts
I've had requests for the name of the service company but I don't have enough posts to send private mail.
I'll hold off telling the list until the bill has been settled. So far they want $2880 for repairs, but maybe they'll be reasonable. :laugher
Get a quote from someone on a new rudder, I'd wager it'll be two to three times that much, if not more. On our 30ft boat with a new 1 1/2'' shaft, new foam, glass, it's coming to around $1500 in parts and $3500 in labor.

I would weigh that into your decision on what to do heavily, considering that you don't want to splash with a bent rudder along with the impact on resale value it would have.

Personally, I would remove valuables from the boat, take pictures of everything, and just assume the boat is going to be tied up in court for a while. You may not want to deal with a lawyer, but the cost in the long run will be less.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Captain's Cove was where I saw them lift on the shaft. They always dropped it back down but often had trouble getting the slings in the right spot.

I'm not sure how to avoid paying whatever I can negotiate unless the marina will splash me without settling with the repair shop. (Independent businesses)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,864 Posts
I chose the marina partially because they have a fancy boat lift that doesn't use slings. We were in a marina that had a Travelift and saw numerous instances of slings lifting on prop shafts. I wonder how many of those boats ended up with a bent shaft. :(
It is up to the boat owner to mark sling positions on the toerail. Even the best travel lift operator doesn't know every boat's lines where they cannot be seen. They certainly should ask if the owner is present.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,549 Posts
He must be talking about Lions Gate marina. I think it is important to note that around here the people that work on the boats are independent contractors, not employees of the boatyard. They sometimes lease yard space, or have shops nearby but they are not connected.

I use Lynnwood marina, and aside from an unfortunate incident where the yard staff bumped my boat with a set of steel stairs and scratched my brand new Awlgrip paint job :mad:, I have had pretty good success with them. The travel lift has never done any damage. I agree that every owner should have their boats marked for sling position. In my case the slings are never anywhere near the prop shaft.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Lions Gate Marina seems pretty professional and there machine is impressive.
But the service company, Oceanos Marine Solutions, offered no solution. They insist that the rudder must have been like that when it was taken out of the water. Utter BS but I can't prove differently.
The fact is the replacement of a PSS seal escalated into a new shaft and all the attendant issues with removing the steering radial wheel to drop the rudder etc was all caused by the worker not knowing how to drill stainless.
It's not rocket science: slow speed, real cutting oil, cobalt bits, proper pressure and don't touch it until the bit is up to speed. He put the dry drill bit against the retainer, pushed hard and cranked to full speed. From there it was all down hill.
From a business point of view it makes sense. Put the worst guy you have on the job so it mushrooms into lots of expensive extras. All with no up front price. The slower he goes, the more they make, the more incompetent he is the more they make.

Its a $3500 mistake that I won't make again. :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,864 Posts
Oceanos prefers powerboats - they hate sailboats and aren't experienced with them I have been informed. They have had issues in the past apparently.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,549 Posts
Lions Gate Marina seems pretty professional and there machine is impressive.
But the service company, Oceanos Marine Solutions, offered no solution. They insist that the rudder must have been like that when it was taken out of the water. Utter BS but I can't prove differently.
The fact is the replacement of a PSS seal escalated into a new shaft and all the attendant issues with removing the steering radial wheel to drop the rudder etc was all caused by the worker not knowing how to drill stainless.
It's not rocket science: slow speed, real cutting oil, cobalt bits, proper pressure and don't touch it until the bit is up to speed. He put the dry drill bit against the retainer, pushed hard and cranked to full speed. From there it was all down hill.
From a business point of view it makes sense. Put the worst guy you have on the job so it mushrooms into lots of expensive extras. All with no up front price. The slower he goes, the more they make, the more incompetent he is the more they make.

Its a $3500 mistake that I won't make again. :(
I would think that if the bent shaft was a pre existing problem then there would be signs of abrasion on the hull and rudder where they come into contact. Either way it may be a relatively simple fix. Pulling the rudder and carefully checking the shaft to see if it is true, and figure out where to apply pressure to bend it back.

Right now they have you by the short hairs because your boat is on the hard, and every day it sits there it costs you more money. Pay their bill so you can get your boat back, and then persue the matter with the better business bureau or small claims court. You might want to have another company give you an opinion on the problem before you splash.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
Personally, I would remove valuables from the boat, take pictures of everything, and just assume the boat is going to be tied up in court for a while. You may not want to deal with a lawyer, but the cost in the long run will be less.
Certainly not the course I would pursue but free advice is worth what you pay for it (mine included). This means no sailing for quite a while but still having 100% of the expenses like storage fees accumulating. By the time it is resolved in court your storage fees will be more than it would have cost you to fix it. Average waiting time in BC for small claims court date is 164 days and at $25 day storage that is $4100 you will not likely recover. You also cant recover your lawyers fees in BC small claims court. Lawyers here charge $150-575 an hour and you have to know they will need at least 20 hours (way more if it goes to court). If you have no problem spending another $7-10k you wont recover to still not have it fixed then this is the way to go. FIXING THIS WILL COST FAR LESS THAN HIRING A LAWYER!

Have it fixed by another shop so you can use it and sue these clowns in small claims yourself. Why would you want to give these guys an opportunity to do more damage (work?) anyway?

You will have to pay the bill in order to have them splash you or let it out of the yard and if you have been making noise dont expect them to reduce their fees without a liability waiver. You will likely be paying the full amount and having to pursue them in small claims court.
Small claims doesnt require a lawyer but you will need to have a surveyor or qualified marine expert (maybe your new repair shop) prepare a report for the court providing evidence this was all the fault of the repairer. If this cant be proven then its time to call your insurance company or suck it up

Thanks for providing the name of a shop to avoid. Good luck in making the best of a bad situation
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks for the interest. I paid the bill and splashed the boat yesterday. Powering in the breezy conditions yesterday didn't show up any problems.
My new PSS seal is working great and new sea cocks (Trudesign) that close give peace-of-mind.
The rudder isn't bent much but it really p!ssed me off when he said it must have been like that before.
For now I'll trim a couple of mm off the top of the rudder and live with it until next haul out and put this episode behind me. Based on past experience in small claims court a "he said, she said" case would probably end up as a 50-50 split or better but I don't need the grief and would rather devote my energy to the never ending boat projects.
As a side note, Lions Gate Marina is well run but there is lots of dust in the air from the wood fiber loading on one side and the sulfur loading on the other.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top