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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All...

I bought my boat last September and am still figuring out how the PO had it set up. I am trying to modify the rigging for maximum advantage in racing.

Currently, my boat has a track on the mast and a gooseneck that slides (not very well at all - it binds) up and down along this track. From the bottom of the gooseneck there is a very thin and short line that just dangles there with nothing to attach to. The main sail is equipped with a cringle for a cunningham, but no cunningham I can locate.

I am trying to decide how best to fix this. I have at least two options:

1 - Replace both the gooseneck and track with a system that allows the gooseneck to snap into place along the track, locking it in place, and rig a conventional cunningham (with a purchase) through the cringle.

2 - Keep the existing track and gooseneck (or maybe find a gooseneck that does not bind on the track) and run a 2:1 or maybe 3:1 purchase from the bottom of the gooseneck down.

The mast is deck stepped.

Setting aside the fact that the existing gooseneck tends to hang up on the slide, does it make a difference whether I tighten the luff from below at the gooseneck itself or at the cringle?

Snaping the gooseneck into place and using the cringle would create a small area of sail disruption at the tack, but not move the height of the boom.

Having the gooseneck slide avoids a bag in the sail at the tack, but then the height of the boom changes. I am not sure there is a disadvantage to that and I am leaning toward this system.

Either way, I need to mount the bottom of the down haul / cunningham somewhere, so the other concern is mounting something that creates vertical stress to the cabin top. This is a problem with whichever system I pick, so I would appreciate comments about that as well. Is it a valid concern?

Of course either way, I can bring it aft to the cockpit. I may or may not, as the cockpit is extremely small.

Thanks very much for any suggestions! I plan to do this over thr weekend. Got a nice race Saturday!
 

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Consider that the gooseneck is one of the most heavily-loaded bits of moving equipment on your boat. Any choices you make should be made in the direction of stronger.
 

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I have a sliding gooseneck on my Helms 25. The downhaul line is secured at the base of the mast in the same mast slide, not the deck.
 

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Telstar 28
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I would suggest affixing the gooseneck to the mast in a set location and then setting up a proper cunningham. If you mount the cunningham or downhaul hardpoint to the mast step, there will be no effect on the cabintop.

Having a fixed height boom makes it easier to setup and use a boom vang. It also makes it less problematic if you decide to run the halyards and other control lines aft, since some lines, like the outhaul and reefing lines, would be affected when the boom changes height.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I would suggest affixing the gooseneck to the mast in a set location and then setting up a proper cunningham. If you mount the cunningham or downhaul hardpoint to the mast step, there will be no effect on the cabintop.
Makes sense, but the mast step is completely covered by the mast itself. Should I add some kind of ring or bail to the actual mast?
 

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Can you attach a fixed jam type cleat to the base of the gooseneck track? Or if your using blocks for mechanical advantage, a ring fitting. I guess we should ask what type of slide do you have. There are many different types of cars made for slides that will solve your problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Can you attach a fixed jam type cleat to the base of the gooseneck track? Or if your using blocks for mechanical advantage, a ring fitting. I guess we should ask what type of slide do you have. There are many different types of cars made for slides that will solve your problem.
Well the track is a Tee track, similar to what a genny car rides on. It does not extend down very far below where the goose neck usually sits. Someone else suggested the track, maybe I can find a ring that would slide in the track.

What did you mean by a car could solve the issue?

SD, I have never seen an unstepped macs, so forgiv this dumb question, but does the mast somehow sit on that plate? The impression I had is that the mast step is like a shoe that sticks up, and the mast site on top of it, and the step comes up into the mast a bit to prevent it from sliding around on the deck. But I could be wrong, as I have never seen how it works.
 

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Telstar 28
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Depends on the boat. But many have a mast step that is essentially a plate that the mast sits on. For instance, this is the mast step on my boat.



It is basically a three-sided box that the mast slides into. It has plates attached so I can use blocks to lead lines aft, and has two holes for safety pins that prevent the mast base from moving forwards.


On a lot of boats, you could mount that plate where the mast sits on the cabintop by loosening the shrouds and stays a couple turns...since it is only 1/16" thick or so.

SD, I have never seen an unstepped macs, so forgiv this dumb question, but does the mast somehow sit on that plate? The impression I had is that the mast step is like a shoe that sticks up, and the mast site on top of it, and the step comes up into the mast a bit to prevent it from sliding around on the deck. But I could be wrong, as I have never seen how it works.
 

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I have a sliding gooseneck on my HR28. That was part-and-parcel with the old-school roller booms of the 60's. Wouldn't replace it like that today, but since it's existing gear, we use it.

We don't use the roller function, but the sliding gooseneck with downhaul is a good thing -- to allow our Dutchman to be tensioned at rest, yet relaxed when the sail is hoisted. We release the vang and downhaul, hoist fully, and then tension the downhaul to adjust luff tension, just like a cunningham.

FWIW, We do run McLube on the gooseneck track, as it isn't as low-friction as it could be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I have a sliding gooseneck on my HR28. That was part-and-parcel with the old-school roller booms of the 60's. Wouldn't replace it like that today, but since it's existing gear, we use it.

We don't use the roller function, but the sliding gooseneck with downhaul is a good thing -- to allow our Dutchman to be tensioned at rest, yet relaxed when the sail is hoisted. We release the vang and downhaul, hoist fully, and then tension the downhaul to adjust luff tension, just like a cunningham.

FWIW, We do run McLube on the gooseneck track, as it isn't as low-friction as it could be.
I'm going to look at the other boats at the marina and see how they have done this. SD raises a good point about boom height changing when controls are run aft. Right now I have no controls run aft that would be impacted by changing boom height, but I would like to run the clue outhaul aft.

Also, my topping lift tends to foul in the top batton, screwing up the shape of the sail. I am thinking of replacing it with a "boomkicker" from:

Boomkicker

If I do install the boomkicker than the gooseneck needs to be fixed at one height. I have not decided yet. I may just need to increase the length of the topping lift so I can release it more.

For now, I am going to look for a way to get any kind of down haul rigged for the weekend. After that the mast is coming down for some work anyhow, so I can rerig the entire thing.
 

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Hi All...

I am trying to modify the rigging for maximum advantage in racing.
Most One-Designs and Handicap rules (such as PHRF) measure the luff length (P: Length from the attachment of the boom to the mast (gooseneck) to the mast's top.) This measurement is usually fixed with a painted "black bands" at the top and bottom. While racing you cannot raise the sail above the upper band, nor lower the boom below the lower band.

Thus to get optimum luff tension easily a Cunningham is by far the simplest.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Most One-Designs and Handicap rules (such as PHRF) measure the luff length (P: Length from the attachment of the boom to the mast (gooseneck) to the mast's top.) This measurement is usually fixed with a painted "black bands" at the top and bottom. While racing you cannot raise the sail above the upper band, nor lower the boom below the lower band.
Hm, another good point. When I applied for my rating I just looked up those numbers for me model boat and didn't actually measure.

So that leads me to ask, how far below the mast head should the top black band be? Once I know that I guess I can measure to see where the gooseneck belongs. I did have in the back of my head that if I replace the track then I am not sure where to locate the gooseneck.
 

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Leave the track alone, lock it down the next time you're at full hoist and are happy w/ light air sail shape. You'll have to find one design class rules on the luff length and black band measurements.

And just rig a cunningham.
 

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Jarcher, I also like the "Fixed Boom" idea best but I just thought I'd show an example of how the adjustable boom was done by Seldon (or maybe Nauticat) on my boat's mizzen. Because of the steering station right at the mast a vang wasn't an option (head clearance) so I believe that's why they added the adjustment. Since the boom adjusting slider is held to the mast you wouldn't really need special "car blocks" just secure to the slider on top and mast base at the bottom.


 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Leave the track alone, lock it down the next time you're at full hoist and are happy w/ light air sail shape. You'll have to find one design class rules on the luff length and black band measurements.

And just rig a cunningham.
The gooseneck does not lock on the track, but I put an eye on the mast to tie it to for now. The mast is stepped in a small depression on the deck, so I may not be able to get a plate under it. Someone thru-bolted a bail to connect the vang to.

There is a pair of blocks bolted to the deck at the base of the mast which I think are for the reefing lines. I could put similar blocks next to them, one on either side, and run a cunningham line through one, up to the sail cringle, down to the other, then bring them aft with a purchase somewhere. If I do that I can adjust it from either side.

I can do the same with the clue outhaul. Of course the boat's beam is less then 10 feet so it may be over kill.

I don't see this all happening by Saturday but at least I was able to secure the gooseneck so I can tighten the halyard.
 

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jarcher,
A depression? Mine was stepped in a deppression, too. But that was caused by 40 years of rig tension and .... It seems like a real odd design to have a low point on the cabin roof where water could pool.

You can see a few pictures of one way that deck-stepped masts are done in this thread and the work to remove the depression and replace the mast-step and add an organizer plate (oddly enough, the same one that Dog has a picture of.) Finishing up the mast-step repair (lots o pics) - Anything Sailing Forums
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
jarcher,
A depression? Mine was stepped in a deppression, too. But that was caused by 40 years of rig tension and .... It seems like a real odd design to have a low point on the cabin roof where water could pool.
:laugher Well the depression my mast is stepped in is clearly original. Yes, water does pool there, a little bit. I'll snap some pictures when I next go down there, hopefully tomorrow.

Thanks for that link, it was interesting.
 
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