[Petar]

Hi,
I've read somewhere that these sliding genoa/jib sliding track blocks need to be fitted so that locking pin is forward of the block rather than aft of it as it might slide backward very heavily and hurt you if you are adjusting them while under strain? I've checked several boats in my marina today and majority are fitted with the locking pin aft and only few forward of the sliding arrangement. What is the right way to fit these sliding track blocks?

regards/Petar

 

[billyruffn]

I'm not sure what you mean by the "locking pin", but the pressure of the sail transmitted through the sheet to the block will force the block aft. I don't have a "locking pin". I control the position of the block with a line that pulls the block forward and if cleated off keeps it in position. When I slack the line the block moves aft.

 

[Faster]

I don't think there's a "right" way... I set mine forward of the block. I've had the flogging sheet (flattish lead aft ) trip the pin and release the car to move in the past when I've set it up with the pin aft.

 

[sailingfool]

I also don't think the pin position matters. It's my experience that the genoa blocks wont' move once under load, whether you want to adjust them forward or aft. You need to remove the load by luffing the sail before you can move the block, or move the windward block and tack to do the second.

 

[celenoglu]

It is better if they are forward. You will have more space to move them with your hand and normally they will not move forward by themselves which might damage your hand.

 

[sailingdog]

IMHO, it doesn't really matter as you shouldn't be adjusting the pins when the car is under a load, unless you have a line-controlled jib-fairlead car setup.

 

[pdqaltair]

Second that - they can move FAST.

IMHO, it doesn't really matter as you shouldn't be adjusting the pins when the car is under a load, unless you have a line-controlled jib-fairlead car setup.

This, of course, depends on rigging details. Once I watched a car and block shoot past a friend's ear at 60 mph because the pin did not fully engage the hole. We had not adjusted the jib in 10 minutes or more - wave action was the trigger. Yes, there was a stop at the end of the track, but the car blew through that.

The critical factor seems to have been a single seed, pooped by a bird, into the pin hole in the track. Thus the crew, new to the boat, did not realize the pin was not fully seated.

We very seldom adjusted the track in question; there was a barberhauler set-up to manage most under-way adjustments, since the lead is moved in-out more than fore-aft, and if there is a fore-aft change to be made, it waits until the load is off.

It's always something.

 

[Skipper995]

Don't like 'em

Frankly locking pin type genoa cars are just plain wrong. If your not adjusting the car your never going to get the sail trim right. Line adjustable cars don't have pins. They are towed to the correct position and adjusted for varying wind conditions and points of sail.
I am always aware of the cars need for adjustment and tweaking them makes a huge difference in sailing performance.

 

[sailingfool]

Frankly locking pin type genoa cars are just plain wrong. ...
I am always aware of the cars need for adjustment and tweaking them makes a huge difference in sailing performance.

It only takes a few minutes one-time to mark the genoa tracks for the proper car location for each jib: 150%, 125% or 85% on my boat. Once the track is marked, you only need to move the cars each time you change the sail that is on the furler. So my cars get moved a couple of times a month.

Adjustable cars are nice-to-have when you feel that you can afford to have it all...

 

[ste27]

It only takes a few minutes one-time to mark the genoa tracks for the proper car location for each jib: 150%, 125% or 85% on my boat. Once the track is marked, you only need to move the cars each time you change the sail that is on the furler. So my cars get moved a couple of times a month.

Adjustable cars are nice-to-have when you feel that you can afford to have it all...

problem is that there is no such thing as one "proper location" - esp if you're a racer

 

[Skipper995]

No, not true

Genoa cars do NOT have a fixed location for any head sail. Setting an approximate starting point for the location is OK till you start to trim. Then the location needs to be moved based on wind, waves, and AWA.
Those who sail around with their genoa cars frozen in location will never get the best out of their sails. Don Guillette is famous for saying the genoa car that is fixed is like a broken clock, it's right two times a day. All the rest of the time it's wrong.
Trim is trim, there is no such thing as "racing trim". Trim is either right or it isn't. Every control line on the boat needs adjustment, halyards, sheets, vang, cunningham....you name it.

 

[sailingfool]

Hey, Skip, thanks for the catchy quote...but you should apply some perspective. Sure every control line CAN have adjustment, to say that all NEED adjustment is way overkill for the non-racing sailor.

If a boat has a fixed prop or a dirty bottom or uses a soft bottom paint or has sails 3-4 years old or older or carries two anchor setups or a lot of cruising gear or drinks beer while sailing... then adjustable genoa blocks won't matter a hill of beans to its performance, or lack of performance as may be more relative, other than costing some money better spent elsewhere and adding another source of stubbed toes. I would expect that more than 95% of Sailnet boats fall into the above category.

My race ride has adjustable cars and once set for the headsail of choice, they get adjusted further perhaps every other race...I find it more frequent to want to move the car in/out which still requires setting a barberhaul.

 

[Skipper995]

sailingfool, if your race ride only adjusts its genoa lead cars every other race or so, you're obviously not winning any races. On the ride I race on those cars are almost never still. But we are racing competition that would surely eat us alive if we weren't using everything at our disposal. But although racers want to get their trim right is no excuse for those who are not racing. Sure you can 'set it and forget it' with virtually any sail trim adjustment but it's hardly the right thing. I know there are skippers that could care less if their sail trim is correct but I enjoy sailing and getting my boat in proper trim is part of that enjoyment.
Cheers!

 

[sailingfool]

sailingfool, if your race ride only adjusts its genoa lead cars every other race or so, you're obviously not winning any races....

In more races than not, the wind and sea conditions are quite similar to the preceding race, fiddling with the genoa cars would be just that, fiddling. You shouldn't take everything you read so seriously...

 

[Skipper995]

Ok

..you just relax and let things go, I'll 'fiddle'

..we'll be waitin' for you at the bar!

Cheers

 

[jackdale]

Jib cars should be adjusted for wind angle and sail size.

When close-hauled the cars need to be back. But if you bear away onto a beam reach or a broad recah you will spilling air of the top of the leech. Not only does this mean the sail is depowered, but having the leech fluttering increases the wear in the sail.

This not a racing "thing". It is proper seamanship.

Jack

 

[sailingfool]

Jib cars should be adjusted for wind angle and sail size.

When close-hauled the cars need to be back. But if you bear away onto a beam reach or a broad recah you will spilling air of the top of the leech. Not only does this mean the sail is depowered, but having the leech fluttering increases the wear in the sail.

This not a racing "thing". It is proper seamanship.

Jack

Thanks for the little lecture.

So how about a survey..how many Sailneters cruising-about adjust their jibsheet leads forward and out to the rail when they are jib reaching...? Do you keep a short sheet and spare blocks readily at hand? Do you know what a short sheet is...?

I'd bet not many...while such adjustment is proper sail trim, it is too inconvenient for cruisers, leaving it to be in fact a racing "thing".

 

[blt2ski]

I recently switched from pin to line control carrs, or should I say, I converted my pin carrs to line control. Boy is it a "LOT" easier to adjust the carrs as needed, along with allowing one to adjust the genoa and jibs to the wind conditions. Granted I do race, but even on day sails. I hate healing when I do not have to, or should I say, spouse does not like the healing, along with not going as fast forward as one might be able to when you have carrs, be them Jib or genoa or mainsail set correctly.

I even tried drilling two holes inbetween the holes that would 4" apart, it was better, but a pain to adjust under load! You especially notice this if you have a deck setup clew vs one that is 20-24" off the deck like my cruise 140 is vs my carbon race 155. Amaxing what 1" or movement to a carr will do for performance.

marty

 

[jackdale]

Thanks for the little lecture.

So how about a survey..how many Sailneters cruising-about adjust their jibsheet leads forward and out to the rail when they are jib reaching...? Do you keep a short sheet and spare blocks readily at hand? Do you know what a short sheet is...?

I'd bet not many...while such adjustment is proper sail trim, it is too inconvenient for cruisers, leaving it to be in fact a racing "thing".

Answer - yes. It is really necessary on a Nauticat.

Jack

 

[christyleigh]

Answer - yes. It is really necessary on a Nauticat.

Jack

Egads..... another Nauticater. Hi Jack I'm no racer but I did have line adjustable cars on my previous Catalina 320. I'm racer term illiterate so I didn't know what a "short sheet" was but your picture is similar to what I do for down wind work only I bring it a couple feet back and up to the pilothouse deck level to really fill the genoa. Wish I had your toe rails for connecting anything anywhere
As for car adjustment and general sail trim when day sailing around the bay a nice 10 mile reach, run, whatever.... means 20 wind shifts because of the islands, the daily afternoon Swesterly, etc.... so some of us "cruisers" DO adjust our sails constantly. Learn to sail on Narragansett Bay and you'll learn to trim like a racer or just sit there....