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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ahoy mateys! yet another post to put the sailnet crew at odds with each other. lol.

my boat has a companionway hatch that has hinges and opens just like the forward hatch. however, i have noticed that the pics of these boats that you see, on line, show that many get converted to sliding hatches.

so, what are your opinions? hinged hatch or sliding hatch? which is best? what are the benefits and bad points of each style? which is more seaworthy? that be the question i put before ye, me jollys. lol.
 

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Once known as Hartley18
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IIRC, sliding or lift-up hinged has little to do with seaworthiness and a lot to do with being able to open the hatch without it being fouled by the boom.

If you have a lift-up companionway hatch I guess it depends on the build as to what breaks first during an accidental gybe: (a) the boom, (b) the hatch and/or (c) the arm of the person who just happened to be opening the hatch at the time.. The only other alternative with a lift-up hatch is to locate the boom so far up the mast as to lose heaps of effective sail area for no valid reason.

That's all there is to it, really. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
IIRC, sliding or lift-up hinged has little to do with seaworthiness and a lot to do with being able to open the hatch without it being fouled by the boom.

If you have a lift-up companionway hatch I guess it depends on the build as to what breaks first during an accidental gybe: (a) the boom, (b) the hatch and/or (c) the arm of the person who just happened to be opening the hatch at the time.. The only other alternative with a lift-up hatch is to locate the boom so far up the mast as to lose heaps of effective sail area for no valid reason.

That's all there is to it, really. :)
really? ok. thanks for the answer. the boom on my cal is pretty high. even lowered to the bottom of the track, 18" below where it's supposed to be set, it still clears the hatch by a good bit.
 

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Once known as Hartley18
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really? ok. thanks for the answer. the boom on my cal is pretty high. even lowered to the bottom of the track, 18" below where it's supposed to be set, it still clears the hatch by a good bit.
Then, with a sliding hatch, maybe it could be even lower. ;)

Do you race at all? If not, sliding or hinged probably doesn't matter.
 

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If the boom currently clears the hinged hatch, this really doesn't matter a whole lot. In a refit, this would be the last modification I would spend time and/or money on.

That said, hinges can bend. If I was starting from scratch, I would install a slider. I would not bother to retrofit. When I see stuff like this being done, I usually think the owner likes boat projects more than sailing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
no. i have no intention to race. just cruise.

i am not planning on a conversion. the hatch was missing when i got the boat....well, most of it was missing. i made a new one to replace the old. i don't know if you remember my boat but it has a 'convertable' pop top. 5' headroom when down. 6.5' when up. i don't need more than 5'8" since i am 5'7" but i get tired of stooping for the 5' roof.

since the weather has been nice, i have been propping the pop top up 8" to see how it would be. i say propping because the pop top hardware is missing. anyhow, it's great to be able to stand up. it's even easier going below, with the top up 8". and it doesn't look bad, either. the full 6.5" extension wouldn't look good. i've seen pics of the tops of these popped. anyhow, the opening created by lifting the top that 8" is perfectly in line of eyesight and it gives great ventilation to the boat.

i was already planning on doing a permanent coach roof before but, now that i have been popping the top that 8" i am positive i am doing it. and i'm going to put portlights in it, also some actual opening portholes for ventilation.

i was just going to replicate the pop top's hatch opening, when i make the coach roof, and use the hatch i already made but, i wanted to make sure it wouldn't be better to build it with a sliding hatch before i actually do it rather than discover it after it's done. measure twice and cut once.

if i was just planning to daysail or race, i'd let the pop top alone but, i intend on cruising and sleeping on the boat. that 5' headroom is already a pain in the back and i've only had to deal with it while working on the boat. it'll only be a bigger pain when your trying to actually live on it...even for just a weekend.
 

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since the weather has been nice, i have been propping the pop top up 8" to see how it would be. i say propping because the pop top hardware is missing. anyhow, it's great to be able to stand up. it's even easier going below, with the top up 8". and it doesn't look bad, either. the full 6.5" extension wouldn't look good. i've seen pics of the tops of these popped. anyhow, the opening created by lifting the top that 8" is perfectly in line of eyesight and it gives great ventilation to the boat.

i was already planning on doing a permanent coach roof before but, now that i have been popping the top that 8" i am positive i am doing it. and i'm going to put portlights in it, also some actual opening portholes for ventilation.

i was just going to replicate the pop top's hatch opening, when i make the coach roof, and use the hatch i already made but, i wanted to make sure it wouldn't be better to build it with a sliding hatch before i actually do it rather than discover it after it's done. measure twice and cut once.

if i was just planning to daysail or race, i'd let the pop top alone but, i intend on cruising and sleeping on the boat. that 5' headroom is already a pain in the back and i've only had to deal with it while working on the boat. it'll only be a bigger pain when your trying to actually live on it...even for just a weekend.
A pop-top is a great idea, used widely on many trailer-sailers - too many to mention. Most use conventional caravan hardware.

It sounds like one would benefit your boat hugely, but if you're going to make a pop-top, it's easiest to fit some kind of sliding hatch because one other disadvantage of a lift-up hatch we haven't mentioned yet (that becomes especially apparent with a pop-top) is the danger of someone dropping the hatch shut on someone's fingers.. and collapsing the pop-top at the same time. Not a good look. :)
 

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You don't have to make a choice. Mine has both. It has hinged hatches, with plexiglass windows for port or anchor. It makes it easy to open and shut the hatch as you go in and out.

At sea, you lift those doors off their hinges and store them below and use the hatch boards, that are three boards that slide in horizontally, like most sailboats.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
A pop-top is a great idea, used widely on many trailer-sailers - too many to mention. Most use conventional caravan hardware.

It sounds like one would benefit your boat hugely, but if you're going to make a pop-top, it's easiest to fit some kind of sliding hatch because one other disadvantage of a lift-up hatch we haven't mentioned yet (that becomes especially apparent with a pop-top) is the danger of someone dropping the hatch shut on someone's fingers.. and collapsing the pop-top at the same time. Not a good look. :)
i'm not making a pop top. it has one and i want to make a permanet coach roof so i always have enough headroom.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Why rebuild a permanent coach roof, if all you need is hardware to keep the pop top up?
because i don't like walking bent over all the time. the pop top can only be up when not sailing. it also needs a material snap on side to keep rain out, which i don't have so i'd not be able to open it up in the rain.

plus, it's very heavy. i can see why it's so heavy. it's not easy making a flat panel structurally sound so you can walk on it. however, made with foam core (or PVC board core....not sure which route i am going yet) you can have a strong coach roof, permanently glassed onto the flange the pop top sits on, that is strong and much lighter than the pop top. less weight up high.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You don't have to make a choice. Mine has both. It has hinged hatches, with plexiglass windows for port or anchor. It makes it easy to open and shut the hatch as you go in and out.

At sea, you lift those doors off their hinges and store them below and use the hatch boards, that are three boards that slide in horizontally, like most sailboats.
i'm talking about the hatch; the horizontal sliding or hinged door that is above the companionay.
 

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because i don't like walking bent over all the time. the pop top can only be up when not sailing. it also needs a material snap on side to keep rain out, which i don't have so i'd not be able to open it up in the rain.

plus, it's very heavy. i can see whi it's so heavy. it's not easy making a flat panel structurally sound so you can walk on it. however, made with foam core (or PVC board core....not sure which route i am going yet) you can have a strong coach roof, permanently glassed onto the flange the pop top sits on, that is strong and much lighter than the pop top. less weight up high.
Jack, that all makes sense to me. If you're planning on replacing the pop-top with something permanent, just a couple of things IMO:

1. I would suggest you move to a sliding hatch, because your current companionway hatch will be much closer to the boom than it is now and the issues with that as pointed out previously then apply.

2. Be aware that "raising the lid" will affect the look of the boat and could potentially reduce it's future resale value.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Jack, that all makes sense to me. If you're planning on replacing the pop-top with something permanent, just a couple of things IMO:

1. I would suggest you move to a sliding hatch, because your current companionway hatch will be much closer to the boom than it is now and the issues with that as pointed out previously then apply.

2. Be aware that "raising the lid" will affect the look of the boat and could potentially reduce it's future resale value.
both good points. to address them:

1. when i block the pop top up the 8" i intend to have the coach roof, it clears the beem just fine. like i said, even with the boom at it's lowest, it's pretty high. however, i am considering that, which is the reason for this thread :)

2. i am not worried about resale. i paid $300 for the boat, anyway. but, i never do things with resale in mind. life is for living and boats are for sailing, right? as far as appearance, i have photographed the boat with the top up the 8" to get an idea of appearance and used those photos, with a drawing program, to create mock ups of what it ill look like. i have used these mock ups to decide how i want to do the portlights. i have put a lot of planning into it.

the portlights will be the expensive part of the modification.
 

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Sounds like you have this under control then. :)

the portlights will be the expensive part of the modification.
Yep... although you have a couple of options there. One is to buy a "job lot" from a salvage yard (I'm sure you have them over there) and another is to use a single sheet of Perspex each side glued and screwed to the inside of your fibreglass cut-outs - as is done on many small yachts and trailer-sailers.

Sure, the second option doesn't allow any opening ports.. but if you have them in the existing cabin side and add one or two to the front of your new coach roof, you probably don't need them.
 

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Cal made different versions the c-27 and I believe the c-227 or c-27 T2, something like that
The T2 has a raised cabin, google images and you'll see the differences.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Sounds like you have this under control then. :)

Yep... although you have a couple of options there. One is to buy a "job lot" from a salvage yard (I'm sure you have them over there) and another is to use a single sheet of Perspex each side glued and screwed to the inside of your fibreglass cut-outs - as is done on many small yachts and trailer-sailers.

Sure, the second option doesn't allow any opening ports.. but if you have them in the existing cabin side and add one or two to the front of your new coach roof, you probably don't need them.
i am going for a combination deal. i want a good deal of 'window' where the opening, when you pop the top, currently is. i am planning on two opening ports on the sides, one on each side. that will be the rear 1/3 of the available 'window' space. then a support pillar and the front 2/3 of available space, to the front pillar, will be fixed. i was going to order the fixed ports from a company....until i read your post. lol. thanks for the suggestion. that will save me a good bit of money.

by the way, what do you mean by 'job lot'? i'm not sure we do have a salvage yard around here. i have never heard of one. i will have to do an internet search and see. that might be a good resourse for the opening ports and other items i may need.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Cal made different versions the c-27 and I believe the c-227 or c-27 T2, something like that
The T2 has a raised cabin, google images and you'll see the differences.
you are right. the cal 27 was made til 74, i believe. the T2 was built during those years and had a raised coach roof, a bit like i am planning. the over all deck was different than on the regular c27, though. my deck is higher and has two fixed portlights in the side as well as an opening one where the head is, right behind the v-berth. the T2 has a lower deck, as it goes towards the stern of the boat, and has no portlights in the side of the deck. instead, the raised coach roof is a good deal higher than what i will be fabricating and the two fixed portlights are in the coach roof. i have a good many pics of both vessels saved on my computer. i think what i plan will look better than the T2 but, that's just my opinion.

after 74, cal made the 2-27, which was an entirely different boat. then in the mid to late 70s they made a different 27' boat called the 3-27 which they decided to just call the cal 27, which is a bit confusing when searching the web for a cal 27. the 3-27 was entirely different than the previous two. both the 2-27 and 3-27 come with a more standard style of coach roof. they didn't offer a pop top after the first 27s.
 

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you are right. the cal 27 was made til 74, i believe. the T2 was built during those years and had a raised coach roof, a bit like i am planning. the over all deck as different than on the regular c27, though. my deck is higher and has two fixed portlights in the side as well as an opening one where the head is, right behind the v-berth. the T2 has a lower deck, as it goes towards the stern of the boat, and has no portlights in the side of the deck. instead, the raised coach roof is a good deal higher than what i will be fabricating and the two fixed portlights are in the coach roof. i have a good many pics of both vessels saved on my computer. i think what i plan will look better than the T2 but, that's just my opinion.

after 74, cal made the 2-27, which as an entirely different boat. then in the mid to late 70s they made a different 27' boat called the 3-27 which they decided to just call the cal 27, which is a bit confusing when searching the eb fopr a cal 27. the 3-27 was entirely different than the previous two. both the 2-27 and 3-27 come with a more standard style of coach roof. they didn't offer a pop top after the first 27s.
Nice info! I HAVE BEEN SCHOOLED! LOL
 
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