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· Closet Powerboater
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There's a concept that's been bugging me about the factional rig. I understand the advantage of mast bend, but the smaller foresail is also touted as an advantage with the main being "the sail that does all the work anyway".

But, wasn't the big deck sweeping and overlapping headsail supposed to be the thing that really mattered? All the club racers have huge overlapping headsails and the "slot effect" is supposed to help with speed. I've heard people say that the headsail is the one that does all the work and pointing...



These guys are fast right? How come they look like masthead boats with big overlapping gennies?

MedSailor
 

· Closet Powerboater
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
From poster Ian McColgin on the wooden boat thread linked to:

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Rating rules and fashion favor bigger jibs. Pity there's even such a thing as "free" sail area in the overlap past J and the high roach of some abaft the mast sails with huge full battens. While the fractional rig with small jib is probably the most efficient way to carve up some fixed pile of canvass, not to mention the fun of bending the mast to shape the sail a bit, there is much to be said for keeping a dead straight column and the structural simplicity of a masthead rig.
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Does this help explain the deck sweeping 140+ genoas and masthead rigs that seem to dominate the racing I've been a part of?

MedSailor
 

· Closet Powerboater
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Bob,

I definitely see the merits of the fractional rig, and while I've heard a lot of people talk about mast bend on fractional rigs, I get what you're saying. Actually, the only sailor that I've ever sailed with that REALLY seemed to know what he was doing with mast bend and make it work in his favor is Doug on Night Runner. Damn I love that boat.... Skipper too. I've learned a lot from the few times I've sailed with Doug.

I can see now about the flying wing shape of the mainsail, and how the rigid wind of some of the americas cup boats resembles one quite closely. Small headsails sound like a great thing to me too..... Basically, I'm sold on the factional rig concept in every way.

To phrase my question another way, what ARE the advantages of masthead rigs and big overlapping headsails? It seems like most of the "arguments for them", like the slot effect, and them being stronger, just don't hold up. Are they outdated tech? Racing rule beaters? Is the buying public just more "comfortable" with them?

MedSailor

PS I am very familliar with ICON. I used to live across the fairway from her at Shilshole, and when I moved up to Anacortes, she followed me up here. I admire her often, though usually from the stern.... :(
 

· Closet Powerboater
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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Oma;
Boy, you are a snide little guy.

Time you educated yourself. All the info is out there. Lots has been presented here. We can't "make you" understand. It's not our lot to educate you. That's your job. You seem determined to stay in the dark when the light switch is right at hand.

Reach for the switch. Most of us did, years ago.
Bob, you're not really going to go after someone else for their snide or grouchy posting tone are you? ;)

As for your lot not being to educate us, I kind of hoped that you would make it your lot since you're one of the few high experts on the subject. With my opening post I posted a lot of BS about rigs, because when I DO try and educate myself, that's what I get back. A lot of dock-talk and eyebrow raising BS. I'm amazed at the sources sometimes too. A racer with a wall of prestigious trophies once told me that only real advantage of a fully battened main is "extra sail area." Really? I have a hunch there's more to it than that...

So, if not you, then can you help us find the right switch? Any good book recommendations? Good websites or Videos? Right now I am finding much more chaff than grain on this particular subject.

MedSailor
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Thanks Bob for the info. Don't worry about the San Fran talk, you're an expert compared to the audience, and that's why they're in their seats and you're up front.

I get what you mean about "convincing yourself that you are an expert." I would consider myself some kind of expert on a few things, but only because I've come to realize that there is no such absolute thing as an expert. Some just know more than others in certain areas of knowledge. It's part of why I added the qualifier "high expert". It's kind of like the term "smart", as in, "he's really smart". I find it such a useless and generic word. Show me a "smart person" and within 5 minutes I bet we can find a topic on which they know virtually nothing. I have a buddy who is a rocket scientist (really, he is) and he can be just as "dumb" as the rest of us mortals from time to time. ;)

Thank you for your rig primer. It has really helped me sort my question into many more sub-questions that will help me go forward. It also helps me understand why there are so many, seemingly conflicting opinions on the subject. Since rig evolution is a moving target, some info (from an "expert") may have once been good info, but is now outdated. Some info comes from big budget racing, small budget racing, or cruising perspectives.

I can also see that sorting out gains vs trade-offs for an individual gets complicated very quickly. Upwind gains are often race winning gains, but perhaps not for a cruiser. Also, your point about having different cuts of 100% jibs demonstrates the different requirements people have for their rig design and performance.

For me though it's all academic. I have a very limited list of boats I can choose from that fulfill all of the compromises that myself and my wife can live with. For now, they're all older masthead rigs. Still, I love learning and sailing is still my favorite subject to continue that learning.

MedSailor
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Hello:
I'd respond but I'd need a translation first.

I am currently working on:
One frac rig
One ketch rig
One masthead sloop that just became a frac rig.
Ahhh... but is the ketch fractional? :D Can I have a mashead main on my ketch with a fractional mizzen please? I think that would be the perfect rig.

Medsailor
 
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