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first sailed january 2008
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So....I'm not going to say I bought a boat, since I believe I will have the transaction completed tomorrow, and be unloading my gear tomorrow evening. But I am going to have so many questions in the coming weeks, you are going to get sick of me, if you already aren't, and I'm sorry.

I actually like asking people online better than in person. Pros can be stingy with handing out info, and owners can be all over the place on what they say.

After looking at this boat, the main problem I saw was the bowsprit has rot at the end. I tapped all over the boat, and this wooden sprit, see photos attached, at the end had some rot.

I'm no rot expert, so I can't tell how far into it it goes, but it's a critical piece because it supports the forestay, with a small dolphin kicker below.

By tapping and feeling, it is only the end. If you look at the picture, at the chainplate, from the last screw forward is soft.

Never having had a bowsprit, but also wanting to add an anchor roller. How soon should these be replaced? Can I sail with it like this in the meantime? Is it a costly thing? I wouldn't think it would be too expensive, mostly I just have a piece of wood cut, loosen and remove the forestay and put the new wood on. Yes? I could glass over the wood maybe.

Thoughts?
 

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It looks like to me, from that picture, that it's basically a 2x12 or so, just painted and stuck on there. I would look into replacing the entire piece, and make sure to seal it properly before mounting the rest. To be honest, if it's showing ANY softness, I would replace it before sailing it, since that stay is relying on it. There's no telling how weak the rest of it is, even if it doesn't show any outwards signs just yet.
 

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Since it appears that the rot is outward from the forestay it is not a dire circumstance. The pressures in a sprit are inward, compression. You need to be certain that the rot does NOT continue under the forestay plate or aft of it. That would require immediate remediation. I must say that it is extremely likely that the rot started in the bolt holes for that forestay fitting.

The bowsprit looks homemade and an add on. To me it would seem to be an easy fix to support the mast with the jib halyard attached to a bow cleat, remove the forestay and replace the sprit with teak which is resistant to rot. Design it better to be more uniform and hold an anchor roller. Then reattach everything, caulking it properly as you go. I would do it now for piece of mind.

Tod
Bayfield 36


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I agree. That abomination has got to go. No matter the cost, do it right, in teak and make it utilitarian, but tasteful. Add the anchor roller and think forward to possibly one day having an asymmetrical or drifter.
 

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first sailed january 2008
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Definitely. Has to go. There is a place called Spaulding boat works in San Francisco which is a school and working wooden boat repair center. I'll give them a call tomorrow. I know it's seems like a DIY project and maybe it can be I don't have a saw.

I might be able to measure and get the plank and rebed it myself. I'm furiously trying to research this. It looks like there are a lot of people that have redone the CD sprit. It was originally white oak.

I don't know how the chainplates are attached. I'll post pictures tomorrow of top and bottom. I'm missing something.

The forestay is on the top of the plank and has six screws through a metal piece. . The bobstay had another metal piece with no screws. I don't know what's holding it on. Hope?

I would think it would be through bolted. The top plate with six bolts through the word and out through the bottom plate. But it doesn't look like that. I must be missing something.

Are the screws screwed in to the bottom plate but don't go all the way through perhaps for aesthetics? I know CD knows how to build boats. I'm just not seeing what is holding it together.

Like I said. I'll post more tomorrow. From what you see it doesn't look safe to sail now? I really want to sail right away. Of course after my last forestay/mast incident I will not sail if it isn't safe. Once I have the boat and am moved on I will poke at it more.

Can I take a needle or awl and poke at it to see where the rot is? The tap test tells it's only at the front. But that's not exactly scientific.

I am excited and nervous all together. I don't know how I will sleep!
 

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I was looking at a Downeaster 38 once with bowsprit issues and was told then that they are very expensive to replace. Yours looks quite a bit simpler. As was said earlier, looks like a 2X12 in some good quality hardwood should do the job. I wouldn't even even think about sailing it like that though. It's very likely that incipient rot extends further than you can see.
 

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Use a drilling tool or a knife to clean inside the rotten area. If it is not too deep you can clean most of it. Brush some epoxy inside and fill with wood saw dust mixed epoxy. The rot size will not increase any more. This repair will stop the rot but if the rot is deep enough, epoxy will not add extra strength.
 

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You could get a spike of some kind and start digging out the rot at least then you will know how far it goes.I would do this before sailing it looks like a very easy fix so dont stress over it.Just dont drop anything in the water and support your mast before you start.
 

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first sailed january 2008
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ok. That's a good idea. I can start
Picking at it and see how deep it goes. I might get lucky and it's mostly been cut away and I car seal it with epoxy for now. Spend the money on an autopilot. But we'll see.

I'm no rot expert. So I really can't say if this is bad or minor. I'm definitely thinking low that's why they cut it away in the stair step shape. And it's probably seeps in further since they did that. Why else make a bow sprit this shape?

So yeah. Not having encountered rot before I just did what everyone tells you to do. Tap tap everything. It was pretty obvious when I encountered it. You could totally tell. Tap tap, thud thud.
 

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The forestay is on the top of the plank and has six screws through a metal piece. . The bobstay had another metal piece with no screws. I don't know what's holding it on. Hope?

I would think it would be through bolted. The top plate with six bolts through the word and out through the bottom plate. But it doesn't look like that. I must be missing something.

Are the screws screwed in to the bottom plate but don't go all the way through perhaps for aesthetics? I know CD knows how to build boats. I'm just not seeing what is holding it together!
I'm thinking the fitting might be 1 piece that goes through a slot in the wood and the bob stay connects to that. The screws don't need to be bolts in that case as the bob stay exerts equal downward pressure. The wood screws simply keep it in place.

I think I would bite the bullet and replace the board, not do a temporary fix that you will always worry about. It seems like a very easy fix. The onboard end is bolted on, isn't it? Can you get to the nuts? Since you don't have wood working equipment, maybe a friend does? Draw something up full size and have someone cut it for you? Maybe a high school shop class? Make it out of either teak or white oak, either is good.

Tod

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Every job I ever did half assed, bit me in the other half. This owner had a good plan, pass it off to the next guy. :)

That sprit is a do over, you have no way to know what structural integrity remains. He cut it away once before. Plus it looks butt ugly.
 
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One of None
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NOB is thing made from construction lumber? (hemlock,fir,spruce) To make it out of teak would be VERY expensive! White oak is a good choice (never red oak) I
Fiberglass and resin on it would not last because of expansion/contraction of the wood.
 
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Farr 11.6 (Farr 38)
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A couple quick thoughts here; You have gotten some good advice and some pretty poor advice. The good advice included attaching and tensioning your Jib halyard to a strongly attached cleat before poking into the wood and replace the bowsprit before you go sailing.

It is very difficult to properly access a situation like this from photos and without being there to see and touch the sprit. And even if we were trying to sort this out, none of us can begin to tell how good or bad the bowsprit is from your photos since the photos don't show the areas that would be of greatest concern such as the area aft of the forestay above and below the sprit, or the area where the sprit is bolted to the deck. What the photos of the existing repair does tell us is that it is unlikely that the prior owner has been doing careful maintenance.

I would say that it makes no sense to mess with a patch job on that bowsprit. It is throwing good epoxy after bad wood.

Assuming that there aren't more serious problems, replacing a bowsprit like that is comparatively easy. If you don't have the skills to perform that level of work by yourself, and are concerned about even trying to do it yourself, you may not be ready to own a older cruising boat.

You should be able buy a slab of white oak pretty cheaply. You should have a tool kit on board with most of the tools that it would take to build a bowsprit and install a bowsprit. (wrench set, screwdrivers, caulking gun, file, paint brushes, a hacksaw with wood and metal blades, and a hand drill and bits) You can by an inexpensive cross cut handsaw for something in the range of $15.00. I would not bother with teak as a piece this large it is very expensive. I would cut and shape the new sprit using the old sprit as a pattern for locating the bolt holes and getting the butt shape.

I would shape it and cut all slots and bolt holes. I would then prime it with two coats of un-thickened epoxy paying close attention to the end grain, especially in the holes and give it a minimum of 3 coats of varnish or paint. (I prefer varnish so you can monitor the condition of the wood, but varnish requires more frequent recoating.)

While you have the sprit off you should check the deck for delamination in the area where the spit is bolted to the deck as there is likely to be core rot in this area. If so, the core rot should be repaired before the sprit is installer, and at the very least the bolt holes should be 'potted', the fittings rebed.

Doing a repair like this will help to develop or practice a broad range of skills, skills which you should have to own a boat.

Jeff
 

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......What the photos of the existing repair does tell us is that it is unlikely that the prior owner has been doing careful maintenance......
+1

Proof that a prior owner is willing to cobble up a obvious repair is not a very good sign. There is a very good chance of others, less obvious.
 

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Good advice Jeff except white oak and epoxy do not marry well :) It's ok to great on joints, but to coat WO.. it will peal at some point.
 

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Farr 11.6 (Farr 38)
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Good advice Jeff except white oak and epoxy do not marry well :) It's ok to great on joints, but to coat WO.. it will peal at some point.
Denise,

I had good results using 2 thin coats epoxy as a primer/sealer on white oak when I built a replacement tiller for my Laser 28. I used the tiller on that boat for 10 years afterward and the finish held up well. I did re-varnish the tiller every couple years.

I would not expect epoxy to adhere to red oak, and prefer prenolic-resorcinol glue as an adhesive with either oak. I would never use red oak on a boat due to its greater tendency to check and rot.

Jeff
 
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