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Mike and the Dirty Bird
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Novice Sailor.
I live in Oklahoma, local marina has a Soverel 30 for sale pretty cheap. (4k ish)
It is larger than what I need. My daughter will sail with me some. My wife maybe once in a great while (she hates dirty lake water) Loves the gulf and Caribean although weve never sailed in either. Really I will probably have a random friend here or there sail with me...or just do it solo.

the "REAL" story is that likely I will sail this around the lake that it is in for a few years...a couple of times a month.

I would like to think that someday I could float it down the river to the Gulf (that is a real thing from Oklahoma...there is a port and barges go all the way up to Tulsa)
I am novice enough that I was looking at Catalina 25 etc...but this boat has a completely new engine, and the Marina seems to think its a great value.
It could also just be that its been for sale the longest. HAHA.

any thoughts?
Should I go smaller? Stay with something with a lot more production units out there (thinking parts and knowledge availability etc)

I cant post links yet. but if you go to sailboatlistings and then put "/view/69038" you could find it and pictures.
 

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Novice Sailor.
I live in Oklahoma, local marina has a Soverel 30 for sale pretty cheap. (4k ish)
It is larger than what I need. My daughter will sail with me some. My wife maybe once in a great while (she hates dirty lake water) Loves the gulf and Caribean although weve never sailed in either. Really I will probably have a random friend here or there sail with me...or just do it solo.

the "REAL" story is that likely I will sail this around the lake that it is in for a few years...a couple of times a month.

I would like to think that someday I could float it down the river to the Gulf (that is a real thing from Oklahoma...there is a port and barges go all the way up to Tulsa)
I am novice enough that I was looking at Catalina 25 etc...but this boat has a completely new engine, and the Marina seems to think its a great value.
It could also just be that its been for sale the longest. HAHA.

any thoughts?
Should I go smaller? Stay with something with a lot more production units out there (thinking parts and knowledge availability etc)

I cant post links yet. but if you go to sailboatlistings and then put "/view/69038" you could find it and pictures.
I can't speak to either of the models specifically, but in that vintage and price range, I'd look for the boat that appears to be in the overall best condition. Make sure that all the primary gear is functioning properly and in good condition (i.e. doesn't need replacement), that the sails aren't total rags, and that the engine truly is new. If you find that there are any major issues (e.g. needs new sails or new rigging) you are probably doubling the cost. The cost of a new Yanmar 30 has to be more than the asking price of the boat, so something seems a little fishy.

Can you actually get to salt water from that marina? It looks like you'd have to transport the boat by truck for at least a short distance. That could get expensive too. Also, are there other marinas on that lake? Or do they have you by the short hairs?
 

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Mike and the Dirty Bird
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Discussion Starter #3
You do have to transport by truck from this lake to port of Catoosa....then from there you can get to salt water.
This is the primary marina in this lake...I think there are a couple others...but this is the "sailboat" marina.
I am going next week to do a much better inspection. I also have the book "your first sailboat" on the way.
 

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The pics look good. If it looks as good in person as the pics make it to be I would go for it. I think you would enjoy it more than the Catalina 25 which is very S L O O O W. Even as a Novice there won't be much of a difference in the learning curve if that's what you're worried about. Do you have to buy a club membership to be able to buy the boat ? Sometimes that's not such a bad deal depending on what the slip rates are in the area.
 

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Not a huge difference between handling a 30 footer vs a 25 footer. That is an older boat, so will require a careful inspection. New(er) engine is a plus. But have to expect some issues for a boat of that size at that price.
 

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I always tell people that they buy an older boat should only be two critical go-or-no-go priorities. If either priority is not met, walk away since its not worth messing with. The first threshold priority is whether the boat was a good design in terms of how well it sails, ease of handling, and how it was built and laid out. Passing that criteria, then it becomes a matter of condition. The Soverel 30 mk II and Mk III fail miserably on the "Are these a good design?" category therefore the condition does not matter. Keep looking.

Production numbers really don't matter much either. Few production boat manufacturers use truly proprietary parts and where there are failed proprietary parts there are also usually workarounds.

Jeff
 

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The Soverel 30 mk II and Mk III fail miserably on the "Are these a good design?"
Curious as to how this conclusion was reached. I thought Soverels did pretty well on the racecourse against their production boat rivals of the era namely Pearson Tartan Cal Ranger etc. Saying that they fail miserably seems to be a stretch and very subjective. Is there something about the 30's attributes in particular that warrants this conclusion? I thought the average PHRF for these boats was in the low to mid 130's which seem quite respectable to me for a 70's vintage 30' production boat. Is the rating overly optimistic ? What is it about the design that fails so miserably?
 

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Curious as to how this conclusion was reached. I thought Soverels did pretty well on the racecourse against their production boat rivals of the era namely Pearson Tartan Cal Ranger etc. Saying that they fail miserably seems to be a stretch and very subjective. Is there something about the 30's attributes in particular that warrants this conclusion? I thought the average PHRF for these boats was in the low to mid 130's which seem quite respectable to me for a 70's vintage 30' production boat. Is the rating overly optimistic ? What is it about the design that fails so miserably?
I think that you may be mistaking this evolution of the 1960's era Walt Walters designed Soverel 30 mk III for the for the later Mark Soverel designed Soverel 30.

The Mark Soverel designed Soverel 30 is one of my favorite designs of the era. They were fast, easy to handle and a great mix of performance and a workable interior (albeit a little Spartan).

The Mk III is a completely different design and a really poor design at that. These were an ideosyncratic narrow beam, keel centerboard boats with minimal stability, under canvassed relative to drag, cranky steering design. I believe that they have a rating somewhere in the mid-200 range.

Jeff
 

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I thought it was the Soverel Designed MKIII the OP was looking at. The one that the 33 came out of. I guess I'm confused. Didn't realize there was a Soverel designed by someone other than Bill or Mark.
 

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I thought it was the Soverel Designed MKIII the OP was looking at. The one that the 33 came out of. I guess I'm confused. Didn't realize there wash a Soverel designed by someone other than Bill or Mark.
The boat design that became the Soverel 33 was the Mark Soverel designed Soverel 30. That was a wonderful design that began life as a MORC Maxi. That Soverel 30 , along with the Shockwave 30, were really great designs that few people remember.

But if you look at the boat linked in the original post, that is a very different design. Starting in the early 1960's, starting with the Soverel 28, Bill Soverel built a series of narrow, keel centerboard boats. In many ways these were sloop rigged non-pareil sharpies. These boats were also loosely based on the earlier MORC rule, but they were not very good designs in terms of sailing well through a broad range of conditions.

While Bill Soverel is credited as co-designer of many of these boats because Bill's strong preferences was guiding the design of these boats. Bill did design the later boats.

The boat in the link, began life in the late 1980's as the Soverel 30. There were two revisions to that boat as the MORC rule changed. Those were the Mk II and MkIII.

What makes it so confusing is that both Bill and Mark produced models called the Soverel 30 and Soverel 33, and that there is absolutely no design relationship between Bill's boats and Mark's designs.

Mark's designs were good all around race boats, In some ways, Bill's designs were decent extreme shoal draft designs for the day. But there were much better versions of the concept in boats like the Bill Shaw (at S&S) penned Tartan 27 or Tripp designed Seafarer Polaris and Kestrel.

Jeff
 

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Thanks Jeff. Yes two very different boats and the naming is confusing. The 30 mk 2 and 3 were built in the 70s and rated 186 or so under PHRF. Somewhat strange design, especially the keel. The S30 is newer and a nice quick (PHRF rating 126) racer cruiser. It actually rates faster than a similar vintage J30!
 
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