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In 2020 when they become affordable then they are a maybe...of course they will be obsolete by then because we'll figure out how to get solar panels to work at night.
 

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No way

I wouldn't even consider paying 500 pounds. I'm still waiting on Firefly. The latest I hear is that an Oasis battery is supposed to be produced in the first quarter of 2009 for the trucking industry. It is designed to take care of the hotel loads as truckers are not going to be allowed to idle engines any longer (by law).
 

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Mud Hen #69, Mad Hatter
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Well whatsa matter? You don't think 3X the life is worth 50X the cost of lead-acid batteries?

This is technology and innovation.

Wait five to seven years for when all the geeks and engineers driving Prius (Priusii?) have to replace the batteries. THEN you'll see cheaper batteries being developed.
 

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Telstar 28
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Not ready for prime time yet... also, they don't say anything about needing much more sophisticated chargers for LiIon batteries... they tend to ignite/explode if not charged properly... remember the Laptop Battery Recall (Dell, Sony, Toshiba, Apple)... yup...same technology.
 

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Mud Hen #69, Mad Hatter
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I think those are Li-Po (Lithium-Polymer) and of different composition. I fly radio-control and our field does not allow charging the Li-Po batteries on site anymore as we had three fires in two months from two planes and one helicopter bursting into flames on a quick 12v field-charger. The helicopter was sitting inside the open hood of the plastic engine "spat" in the guy's car and did some pretty goods paint & plastic damage to the vehicle on the way out.
 

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The two technologies that I think may become affordable are Lithium-Phosphate, and The Carbon plate thing (Firefly) The firefly batteries might be the first new technology that makes sense for boating - 800 charge cycles at 80% DOD. So they might last for 1.5-2x the life of an AGM. Maybe.

A group 31 Lithium Phosphate battery is around $2500, but not available to the general public. Bring that down to $1000, and it starts to make sense from a long term "Investment" standpoint.

Chris
 

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Larus Marinus
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Discussion Starter #9
I guess when they say 3 x the equivalent gel battery price, they mean the price of their own gel batteries....:D
 

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Larus Marinus
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Discussion Starter #11
99000 euros is quite a bundle to spend, even on a nice car.
 

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Telstar 28
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No, the Sony battery recall that affected several major brands of laptops, including Apple, Dell, Sony, and Toshiba, was definitely LiIon, not LiPo... I know because several of my clients and I all had recalled batteries. :) Basically, any lithium-based battery has the risk of fire, due to the highly unstable nature of lithium. Lithium is in the same family as sodium...and you've probably seen how raw metallic sodium reacts to water... :)

I think those are Li-Po (Lithium-Polymer) and of different composition. I fly radio-control and our field does not allow charging the Li-Po batteries on site anymore as we had three fires in two months from two planes and one helicopter bursting into flames on a quick 12v field-charger. The helicopter was sitting inside the open hood of the plastic engine "spat" in the guy's car and did some pretty goods paint & plastic damage to the vehicle on the way out.
 

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battery recall

as I recall the li-ion batteries recalled (all made by Sony) were recalled because of metallic impurities introduced during the manufacturing process. at the time Sony said that they would lose no market share because they were the only manufacturer of that particular technology according to one report.
 

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99000 euros is quite a bundle to spend, even on a nice car.

There's no doubt about it! That car is blindingly fast, cheap to run and goes a long way on a charge. I can't wain until that technology gets ported down to a car that's reasonably fast, cheap to run and goes a reasonably long way on a charge and...... is affordable.
 

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Larus Marinus
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Discussion Starter #15
Trouble is.... If rechargeable electric cars became popular, the government would have to tax them hard to replace their loss of road fuel taxes (in Europe anyway).
 

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Fire potential

The Sony story is slightly more complicated. The batteries did contain impurities, and were LION, but that is not the whole story. These impurities put them at the edge, maybe below, of the performance specifications. The laptop manufactures ran the batteries to the top edge of their performance limits in order to get maximum battery life. In laptop terms the length you can run without a recharge. The problem with LION is it can develop thermal overrun when pushed to hard. Normal circuits prevent the condition from occuring. But given the laptop with no safety margin and the battery on the edge, well we saw the flames. Just some bad engineering by Sony and manufactures. The technology can be built safe. It just requires safety circuits to keep the battery out of the thermal overrun. Responsible engineering should provide an appropriate safety margin.
 

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Telstar 28
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Yeah, but being on the cutting edge of technology often means getting solutions that aren't quite up to par...and in the case of batteries on a boat, you might get burned....literally and financially... don't be a guinea pig if you don't need to be one.

The Sony story is slightly more complicated. The batteries did contain impurities, and were LION, but that is not the whole story. These impurities put them at the edge, maybe below, of the performance specifications. The laptop manufactures ran the batteries to the top edge of their performance limits in order to get maximum battery life. In laptop terms the length you can run without a recharge. The problem with LION is it can develop thermal overrun when pushed to hard. Normal circuits prevent the condition from occuring. But given the laptop with no safety margin and the battery on the edge, well we saw the flames. Just some bad engineering by Sony and manufactures. The technology can be built safe. It just requires safety circuits to keep the battery out of the thermal overrun. Responsible engineering should provide an appropriate safety margin.
 
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