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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All,

My Allmand 31 came with this "monster" spinnaker pole that I took home cause I said "I'll never use this thing". But after some light air sailing this past weekend and fighting to keep "wing and wing" flying, I'm having second thoughts about taking it back to the boat.

I've watched several You Tube videos and see every combination possible for rigging. I can surmise that I need an uphaul, a downhaul and a pole guy. Is that enough? Too much? I watched a video where the guy had yet another line from the clew of the genoa back to a winch.

Suggestions for this novice pole user? Thanks.

Dave
 

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Easiest way is to just attach one end to the mast and the other to the clew - no topping lift or guys needed.
This will get you 95% there.

Next best way is to attach one end to the sheet rather than the clew. Here's where a topping lift will help if the pole weighs too much relative to the wind pressure on the sails and is dipping towards the water. It also helps you to position the clew (and hence trim the genoa) to be where you want it to be.
 

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Typically spinnaker poles are too short to pole out a '150' genoa.. it will 'work' but won't be ideal. An extendable whisker pole is a better idea. Spinn poles tend to be heavier too. I wouldn't expect you need the downhaul/uphaul rigged to use as a whisker pole - unless the pole is simply to heavy to be supported by the sail itself.
 

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loads on reaching pole much less then spin pole. Spin pole may be over kill. Unless its carbon fiber also heavy and a PIA. May want to jury rig a light pole just for the function you want. Then just need some way to attach to boat ( some just clip them to toe rail) and a way to keep it near clew of sail. I have full blown set up with telescoping CF spin pole. Takes a while to set up - lower pole off mast before starting- topping lift first-then fore guy- then after guy- then roll up genny- then clip pole around sheet- then deploy pole and set lines so its where it needs to be- then unroll genny and set sheet to correct length. Can do with the boat on AP by myself with trepidation but takes awhile. Generally don't bother unless its a long board. Still if going down wind wing and wing with the solent in big wind very much worth doing. Other wise not so much. Just knocking around may just drop the main if wind abaft the mast.

On small boats have even seen boat hooks used for this purpose. Did this myself when I had a small Cape Dory. Clove hitch to secure bottom end to mid ship cleat. pointy end through clew sheet grommet. Pole clicked out to right length. Worked fine and cheap and cheerful.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Typically spinnaker poles are too short to pole out a '150' genoa.. it will 'work' but won't be ideal. An extendable whisker pole is a better idea. Spinn poles tend to be heavier too. I wouldn't expect you need the downhaul/uphaul rigged to use as a whisker pole - unless the pole is simply to heavy to be supported by the sail itself.
What's your guess for a pole length flying a 150 (on a 31' boat). Rascals are pricey! :eek:
 

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Forespar's site is a good place to start...

Whisker Poles

I like going with the whole 9 yards - pole lift, foreguy, and afterguy... sounds more complicated, but it actually makes the use of a pole with a furling headsail simpler, and far safer... The advantage of being able to leave the pole deployed, while perhaps furling the jib for a brief course change or jibe, or to douse in a squall, can pay huge dividends when cruising...

Sailing wing & wing can be extremely pleasant, I'm always amazed how infrequently I see it being done... On this particular day running the long, arrow-straight channel on the Indian River, I was passed by 5 or 6 larger boats, all motoring DDW...

Presumably, their full enclosures prevented their diesel exhaust from wafting back into the cockpit :)

 

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The folks who want to sell marine things to you try to make this more complicated and expensive on their YouTube videos than it needs to be.

I carry a Forespar extendable whisker pole (bought used for $100 on Craigslist) and a fully rigged spinnaker pole (bought used for $200) for the spinnaker. The whisker pole is good for running dead down wind and for broad reaching. It is fast and easy to set up when needed. The 10'-18' model would be right for your boat.

I question whether you need all the goodies for a whisker pole, particularly for close coastal or inland cruising, where you rarely hold the same course in the same conditions for any extended period of time. On the other hand, you really should learn how to fly a symmetrical spinnaker on your boat if you do any kind of cruising, because you will spend less time motoring and more time sailing with one.

(If you divide the compass into quadrants of 90 degrees each, you will discover that you should spend 50% of your time either beating into the wind (25%) or running downwind (25%); it actually seems more like 90% of the time. I think that is why so many cruisers end up motoring.)

It is easy enough to put a spare halyard at the top of the mast and/or lash a block for a topping lift at the spreaders. It is also easy to install a pad eye in the middle of the foredeck for a foreguy and extra blocks for the sheets back to the cockpit. You probably don't need it however for the whisker pole:

Broad reach:


Dead downwind:

 

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What's your guess for a pole length flying a 150 (on a 31' boat). Rascals are pricey! :eek:
Do you have a 150%, or something smaller? A popular size for a roller furling genoa is 130-135%, and a J length pole works reasonably well for that.

A topping lift is helpful to prevent the pole from weighing down the sail too much, but a downhaul isn't really necessary.

A whisker pole will be lighter and can be adjusted to fit and takes up less deck space, but since you already have the spinnaker pole I'd try that first.
 

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So often I agree with Jon it's scary. A couple tricks I was taught.
If DDW in light air and not flying a spin,asymmetric or parasail ease the halyard and tighten the leach line before deploying the genny.
If wind builds you can just roll the genny in some without trouble if you gone the whole 9 yards. Pole usually doesn't need much adjustment if any and it's in stable position regardless of what the sail is doing.
Have super long genny sheets. Then you can leave pole out ( now on wrong side) for short bit and go back to original course with out hassle. Find rolling genny in then gybe then back out works just fine.
One last suggestion. Don't cleat fore and after guys. Run them through clutches instead. May want to let them off in a hurry ( knock down, broach, urgent gybe etc.)
 

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I rig my pole as described by Jon because it is the only safe and seaman like way to rig it. It keeps the pole's stability independent of the genoa and genoa sheets.

All the other methods are an accident waiting to happen, they work fine in good conditions, on small boats, but not off-shore in a squall.

I fly a 900sq ft genoa on a 25 ft, 90lb pole. In an emergency I can reef the genoa, get the pole safe and secure on the deck and the staysail flying in 2 minutes without leaving the cockpit... all without help.

Every time you utilize a sail configuration you should ask yourself--- how will I get back to a man-over-board single handed, under sail in less than 5 minutes.
 

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York please tell me how you do it. I can and do roll the genny up from the cockpit and can let the solent out from the cockpit but have to go forward to release the pole from the sheet and then go to the mast and pull the line that raises the pole up the mast so I can attach the other end to the ring at the base of the mast. Can't figure out a way to do this from the cockpit. When its bumpy find its great help to have a second person there to control the pole as you ease its topping lift as you pull it up the mast otherwise the thing swings around. Get rid of the guys last. Leave them clipped to end of pole so I have something to control it as it comes in.
 

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York would gladly crew for you. That statement about MOB is quite thoughtful. My thinking is how can I do this without every creating a possible MOB scenario. Still think you fall off the boat you're dead.
 

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I rig my pole as described by Jon because it is the only safe and seaman like way to rig it. It keeps the pole's stability independent of the genoa and genoa sheets.

All the other methods are an accident waiting to happen, they work fine in good conditions, on small boats, but not off-shore in a squall.

I fly a 900sq ft genoa on a 25 ft, 90lb pole. In an emergency I can reef the genoa, get the pole safe and secure on the deck and the staysail flying in 2 minutes without leaving the cockpit... all without help.

Every time you utilize a sail configuration you should ask yourself--- how will I get back to a man-over-board single handed, under sail in less than 5 minutes.
As long as the pole his hooked onto the sheet and not the clew of the sail, you can gybe or furl the sail with ease. No need to support it. It will simply drop down to the lifelines as the old working sheet is released.

Then again... my pole is not 90lbs.
 

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Cf poles are very light but strong. Still ackward to handle. Can do everything from cockpit except getting rid of it and putting back on mast. Also have to go forward if I want to set it up on the other side. Guess I'm lazy. Rather use the parasailor with no pole ddw in less than 25 that I can do with just me on deck. Usually when the pole goes up it stays up for awhile.
 

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C'mon, moster pole on an Almond 31? Lift it with the topping lift, rig a foreguy and use the sheet as an after guy. It's really not that hard.

If you want to rig an independent after guy you can roll the genny and leave the pole up and rigged.
 

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You don't need to strike the pole if its triangulated. Roll the jib and be done with it, leave the pole in place.

I rig my pole as described by Jon because it is the only safe and seaman like way to rig it. It keeps the pole's stability independent of the genoa and genoa sheets.

All the other methods are an accident waiting to happen, they work fine in good conditions, on small boats, but not off-shore in a squall.

I fly a 900sq ft genoa on a 25 ft, 90lb pole. In an emergency I can reef the genoa, get the pole safe and secure on the deck and the staysail flying in 2 minutes without leaving the cockpit... all without help.

Every time you utilize a sail configuration you should ask yourself--- how will I get back to a man-over-board single handed, under sail in less than 5 minutes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hey Alex,

I have a 100% (on now) and a 150 due back from Doyle any day now. My pole is 12', and I have all spinnaker lines and tackle on the boat. Just because I want to try it, I think I'll leave the 100 on for a bit and try out the existing pole. I'm also thinking about getting brave and try the spinnaker when I take along a couple extra able bodies. :eek:

Dave
 

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.....I'm also thinking about getting brave and try the spinnaker when I take along a couple extra able bodies. :eek:

Dave
Atta boy.. that's the spirit! :)
 
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