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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
C'mon, moster pole on an Almond 31? Lift it with the topping lift, rig a foreguy and use the sheet as an after guy. It's really not that hard.

If you want to rig an independent after guy you can roll the genny and leave the pole up and rigged.
Well it was a monster when I first saw it. This 31 is the largest sailboat I've ever been aboard. OK, after looking at it tonight (it's here at the house), it's pretty little compared to yours and not as big as I remember it from 8 months ago. It's 12' and 2 1/2" diameter.
 

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You'll do fine, rig it and fool around with the jib first just to learn the mechanics of how to set it. When that's comfortable, hoist the kite. Crawl, walk, run... 99% of anything is just getting started. Good luck, have fun.

Well it was a monster when I first saw it. This 31 is the largest sailboat I've ever been aboard. OK, after looking at it tonight (it's here at the house), it's pretty little compared to yours and not as big as I remember it from 8 months ago. It's 12' and 2 1/2" diameter.
 

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A whisker pole is only needed in light air conditions, when the wind pressure isn't enough to lift the sailcloth and hold it in place. IMO, there's no reason to set a whisker pole in a squall or in small craft warning conditions. Using a pole in those conditions risks breaking the pole.

Strong winds will spread out an un-poled genoa and hold it there and keep it filled, unless you trim it badly. If you ease the jibsheet too far forward, the wind will fill the genoa and spill out of it over the leech of the sail. When it spills over the leech, it will attach itself to the back side of the sail, and create a back-pressure, backwinding the leech of the genoa. When that happens, the genoa will collapse, and then it will re-fill and re-open with a bang. When that happens, you should trim the jibsheet further aft. Then, when the wind fills the sail to overflowing, the excess wind will spill off the luff of the genoa, instead of the leech. As a result, the leech of the sail will not be backwinded, and the sail will not fill and collapse and refill with a bang repeatedly.

The only time I might consider using a whisker pole in strong winds is when racing in a sheltered area, such as on a river or a small inland lake or harbor, where the waves can't grow very big. When sailing wing and wing, you have to steer accurately, because, if you steer too far in one direction, the jib collapses, and if you steer too far in the other direction, you risk an unintentional gybe. In strong winds, choppy or rolling waves can make it nearly impossible to steer the boat with the necessary accuracy.
 

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I have a 100% (on now) and a 150 due back from Doyle any day now. My pole is 12', and I have all spinnaker lines and tackle on the boat. Just because I want to try it, I think I'll leave the 100 on for a bit and try out the existing pole. I'm also thinking about getting brave and try the spinnaker when I take along a couple extra able bodies. :eek:
You might find that the pole is too long for a 100% jib. Since it attaches at the mast, and not at the forestay, the pole length for holding out the jib is not equal to the LP (or foot) of the sail. It is close, just not the same. It is good to try it and see though.

You should also try the spinnaker. I'd recommend doing it on a light air day with at least 3 sailors onboard. It is best if any one of them have flown a spinnaker before.
 

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A whisker pole is only needed in light air conditions, when the wind pressure isn't enough to lift the sailcloth and hold it in place. IMO, there's no reason to set a whisker pole in a squall or in small craft warning conditions. Using a pole in those conditions risks breaking the pole.

Strong winds will spread out an un-poled genoa and hold it there and keep it filled, unless you trim it badly. If you ease the jibsheet too far forward, the wind will fill the genoa and spill out of it over the leech of the sail. When it spills over the leech, it will attach itself to the back side of the sail, and create a back-pressure, backwinding the leech of the genoa. When that happens, the genoa will collapse, and then it will re-fill and re-open with a bang. When that happens, you should trim the jibsheet further aft. Then, when the wind fills the sail to overflowing, the excess wind will spill off the luff of the genoa, instead of the leech. As a result, the leech of the sail will not be backwinded, and the sail will not fill and collapse and refill with a bang repeatedly.

The only time I might consider using a whisker pole in strong winds is when racing in a sheltered area, such as on a river or a small inland lake or harbor, where the waves can't grow very big. When sailing wing and wing, you have to steer accurately, because, if you steer too far in one direction, the jib collapses, and if you steer too far in the other direction, you risk an unintentional gybe. In strong winds, choppy or rolling waves can make it nearly impossible to steer the boat with the necessary accuracy.
Well, I've had pretty good luck running with poles in a bit more breeze...

Ran this boat north from Trinidad last spring, and sailed from the Mona Passage up to the top of Exuma Sound, then virtually all of the way from Canaveral to Hatteras behind the passage of TS Andrea with this setup. Mostly breezes from 18-25, serious squalls south of the Bahamas at night, and even though we had to cobble together fore and afterguys using dock lines and spare anchor rode, it worked pretty damn well, and we made a very fast passage...



And with my own little tub, I've had success running off under staysail alone in sportier conditions, poled out with a dedicated shorter pole for that sail... Again, I think the key is stabilizing the pole with a lift, and fore and afterguy, that's worked well for me, so far...



And, as always, some excellent advice from Beth Leonard & Evans Starzinger:

http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/Downwindsail.pdf

http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/JibBridle.pdf
 

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Jon, these discussions are always fact specific. We were flying twin 150s in 18-25 kts of wind with one of the headsails poled out. After we broke the pole, we learned that we could fly both sails poleless and maintain about the same speed. That told us that we should have flown the headsails poleless in the first place. If we had, we could have avoided breaking the pole. By comparison, you were flying a single, smaller headsail, which put a smaller load on the pole, but we were undoubtedly making much better speed. That's why I don't generally like using a pole in strong winds. If you don't have to use it, then you will avoid the risk of breaking it.
 

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Jon, these discussions are always fact specific. We were flying twin 150s in 18-25 kts of wind with one of the headsails poled out. After we broke the pole, we learned that we could fly both sails poleless and maintain about the same speed. That told us that we should have flown the headsails poleless in the first place. If we had, we could have avoided breaking the pole. By comparison, you were flying a single, smaller headsail, which put a smaller load on the pole, but we were undoubtedly making much better speed. That's why I don't generally like using a pole in strong winds. If you don't have to use it, then you will avoid the risk of breaking it.
Sure, every boat and situation is different, no doubt...

However, I'm pretty certain we wouldn't have been able to carry that headsail I pictured - keeping it filled sailing DDW wing & wing for 650 miles beyond the Mona Passage in variable/squally conditions, and after heading up 20 degrees or so to make it thru the Mayaguana Passage - without the use of the pole :)
 

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jon in your first pic...you have an "afterguy" or line runnung aft(from the pole) against a stanchion back to a block or whatever to tighten it up, or is that the sheet?

did you cause any damage from doing this?

the forces involved can be massive, I always avoid touching any part of the lifelines with rigging when possible

I know you set this up as an emergency per your post but thought others should acknowledge this issue...


nice pics btw
 

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jon in your first pic...you have an "afterguy" or line runnung aft(from the pole) against a stanchion back to a block or whatever to tighten it up, or is that the sheet?

did you cause any damage from doing this?

the forces involved can be massive, I always avoid touching any part of the lifelines with rigging when possible

I know you set this up as an emergency per your post but thought others should acknowledge this issue...

nice pics btw
LOL! I've posted this pic several times before, and have been waiting for someone to notice that... Congrats, good eye, looks like you're the first :)

yeah, that's not an ideal setup, by any means - but it probably looks a bit worse than it was :) That pic was taken somewhere between the DR and the Silver Bank. Initially, the jib sheet had a fair lead thru the lifeline gate (the jib lead car was as far aft on the track as it would go). The only place to fix the afterguy was to the stern cleat. But we had to temporarily head up a bit to try to keep clear of some shipping, and in doing so eased the pole forward a bit, as you can see by the slackness of the foreguy and lazy sheet. In any event, those H-R stanchions are pretty stout, I think it would have handled a far greater load than that...

That H-R is a true ocean thoroughbred, but it was somewhat shocking how poorly it was set up for handling anything other than working sails in their normal configuration. You'd really have to get creative to figure out how to fly a spinnaker, or Code 0, for example...

Every time I sail a boat with those pretty teak rails, with no attachment points for snatch blocks or similar, I become more firmly convinced that the perforated aluminum toerail is one of the greatest inventions ever, and one of the most practical things one can have on a boat :)
 

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figured it was a hallberg rassy

on one of our trips out we met a brazillian couple on a REALLY REALLY modern and swan like(or better) HR, awesome interior with leather couches and seats all beautful and such, nav station, man...it was a beauty...

I really like the glass windshield like built in semi dodger

I cant remember the vintage but im guessing late 90s or something

really a beatiful boat

ps TOE RAILS YOU SAY? couldnt agree more...we just rebed ours(perforated aluminum the whole length of the decks) on my islander 36 and it was 96 bolts per side...kind of a massive job...we also resealed the hull joint at the same time...its good I had workers do it cause I would of lost sight of the goal of finishing other projects the first 5 bolts or so! jajaja
 

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The main purpose (at least for me) for running an afterguy on a whisker pole is to prevent it from banging into the headstay when gybing or taking in the jib. Funny, we will go down to whiskerpoling when the winds get higher than our spinnaker’s polars. I’ve whisker poled in winds above 30kts with no ill effect (knock wood).

Regarding Jon’s beautiful photo: Although not the fairest of leads, I thought that the lead would fair up when the pole tip went forward, but oops!, the guy is on the wrong side of the gate… But then the lead wouldn’t be any fairer on the other side owing to the support brace on the other side of the stanchion. Isn’t that the way things go… Someone on the internet will always find that one little “flaw” in an otherwise great photo.

I have to dig up a photo of some pulled up perforated toe rail on a Nordic 44 when a little 3/16 Dacron “fuse” line in a preventer failed to do its job and break under load when we broached during a squall in the middle of the night (why does it always happen to me on the midwatch?)
 

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uhmmm that would be a badly installed perforated rail then! jajaja

for that to happen on my boat per se you would rip out one side of the hull and deck or try to haul the boat up one one side only with a crane

that is an important point however...

not all perforarted rails are installed the same way...

im glad mine is through bolted all the length of it
 

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ooooooooh oh, I wasnt trying to argue bud...I also wasnt trying to find a fault in jons picture

It just so happens I was the first to point it out! he seems happy about it!

now regarding a toerail popping out! I wanna see that

ps. im just playing devils advocate here...im pretty sure its possible...anything is really

so I agree!

peace
 

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For WOW I made a 2" PVC whisker pole that's adjustable and weighs nothing. 2 PVC pipes from Lowes, 2 end caps opened up to accept 2 large clam hooks from Agri Supply here in North Carolina and a spring pin to hold adjustment.

I sail to Okracoke from Washington NC, 64 nm and its a course of 120 which is straight downwind the whole way in light summer air. I clip the pole to the base of the boom vang and to the sheet. Unclip the sheet then the vang 12 hours later.
 
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