Some ropes are tougher to splice than others, and a doublebraided line that has already been used or put under load can be almost impossible to splice. I found that my big rubber mallet helps a lot, I "tenderize" my line for a bit and then get another millimeter before repeating the process. I have a very thin steel fid to pull the line through, it is thinner than Brion Toss' magic wand and I also thin the core down before pulling it.
Do you know which brand line you are splicing?

 

That may be part of my problem. I'm trying to splice some older line. I have lots of old line around and want to make a few simple utility pieces, not for any running rigging.

However, I also want to eventually splice loops in my genny sheets and then use soft shackles. I'm getting really tired of the bowlines hanging up on the shrouds. The sheets are in good shape, but they are about 5 years old so they may be difficult to splice.

Dave

 

Well, I decided to try something else. I took a metal coat hanger, and after using the pusher to create the tunnel , I folded the coat hanger back onto itself and fed it through and pulled, rather than pushed the core through the cover. It worked. The splice is stiff, but strong. I think that this may be the answer to my problems and after a couple more practice runs on some old line, I'll try it on my genny sheets.

Dave

 

good that you got it. you can try a smaller diameter fid. open up the cover with a large fid and feed the line with a smaller one. also try wetting the line where it is feeding thru. feed the fid thru shorter sections at a time. feed the line in and out and then go back into the same place it came out and then out futher down the line until you get the overlap you need.

 

David--

Old line is tough to work with. I have done it but it's a pain as you've discovered. Start by ensuring your line is as clean as possible and dry. When the core is wet it swells a bit making things tighter. Next, before starting the splice, try to pull a couple of inches of the core out of the cover at the end of the line so that you can get a grip on the core and then "milk" the cover back as far as it will go. That will loosen the weave of the cover and allow the core to expand more easily when you're actually making the splice. Then pull the cover back in place and proceed with the splice in the usual fashion. While some guides tell you to make a knot in the line 5 or 10-fid lengths from the point of the splice, I have found (by trial and many errors) that going further up the line also helps with old line. One trick to getting the fid through the last part of the splice is to give it a spray with SailKote. Once that dries, the outside of the fid will be more slippery. Also, if you can't get it all the way through, punch the fid through to the surface of the line short and pull the fid and cover out there, work the line back and forth, spray the fid with Sailkote again and repenetrate the core at the short exit point and shove it through the remainder of the way. I've done it for myself and a few friends in our marina that can't (or won't) get the hang of it, but it is a pain in the neck and one can actually end up with blisters!

Good luck!

 

Ugh, I just went through this myself. The overwhelming consenus is that splicing old, used line is pure masochism. Don't torture yourself. I'm glad you found something that works though, I'll probably give it a try myself.

 

I absolutely agree about splicing old line. Usually not worth the trouble. I charge a flat rate for different splices and when someone wants me to splice old line I charge by the hour. This usually discourages them.
I recommend simply tying a Halyard knot which is a lot stronger and takes up a lot less room than a bowline.

I like the sailcote idea HyLyte. Haven't tried that. I have found that a little baby powder helps with the tight ones sometimes. I always powder up Sta-Set X splices.

 

I absolutely agree about splicing old line. Usually not worth the trouble. I charge a flat rate for different splices and when someone wants me to splice old line I charge by the hour. This usually discourages them.
I recommend simply tying a Halyard knot which is a lot stronger and takes up a lot less room than a bowline.

Is this what you are thinking of? I tied this around the splice that I just made.

I might give this a try today if this is it.

Dave

 

Sometimes you can "milk" the cover from further up the line to increase the covers diameter ,and give you more room for the fid, but I agree that old line is much harder to work with.
Marc

 

Thanks Knothead. It looks like two round turns around the standing part of the line then passing the bitter end through the turns going away from the shackle. I'll give that a try in the morning.

Dave

 

OK, Knothead does this look correct? These are the knots attaching my sheets to the clew. So far they held in 16knots apparent close hauled.

 

They certainly look like the halyard knot to me. I wish I had known that you were planning to use them for sheets though. I would have mentioned that the halyard knot is difficult or impossible to untie after it's been loaded. You will usually have to cut them off.

When I replace my genoa sheets, I always buy a single piece and use a Larks head knot in the middle. After a few years, when I want to move the spots that show a little chafe, I will cut the line, end for end the two pieces and then use bowlines.
Sheets are usually overly large so that you can grip them, so they are strong that the amount of strength that you lose using a bowline is not important.

 

They certainly look like the halyard knot to me. I wish I had known that you were planning to use them for sheets though. I would have mentioned that the halyard knot is difficult or impossible to untie after it's been loaded. You will usually have to cut them off.

When I replace my genoa sheets, I always buy a single piece and use a Larks head knot in the middle. After a few years, when I want to move the spots that show a little chafe, I will cut the line, end for end the two pieces and then use bowlines.
Sheets are usually overly large so that you can grip them, so they are strong that the amount of strength that you lose using a bowline is not important.

Cutting them off won't be an issue. I was looking for an alternative to the bowline since those tend to get caught on my spreaders when tacking. This knot doesn't seem to as much, at least so far.

Dave

 

Dave

I just experienced the same problem. Yesterday I did my first splice.
All I did to get past this issue was to go down one fid size (smaller).
I had to taper cut the core's tip to get it into the fid, but once I did that it was very easy.

Pete

 

I just experienced the same problem. Yesterday I did my first splice.
All I did to get past this issue was to go down one fid size (smaller).
I had to taper cut the core's tip to get it into the fid, but once I did that it was very easy.

I had tried a smaller fid size, but that didn't seem to work for me. My bent coat hanger worked amazing well however. I'll keep one in my bag one the boat.

Dave

 

Samson has a method for splicing used line that works easily. It is not as strong as a normal splice, but is likely twice as strong as a bowline so likely strong enough. They basically just cut off the core and don't bother. The numbers work like this - half the load is carried by both a cover and core. Half the load is carried by just the cover. The cover has half the strength so the overall splice should be about line strength. But the line with a bowline is about half the strength of the line so you are better off even with this less than perfect splice then you were with the bowline. I have a copy of the pdf on L-36.com. I think it is on the Samson site as well.
Eye Splice In Used Line;

 

After successfully splicing 1/2 inch line as a learning exercise, I bought some 3/8th inch line for a spinnaker halyard. I bought extra in case I screwed up the splice, but 3 tries later, I still couldn't get the core back into the cover. I can't see photos of your coat hanger tool here at work, but I'm going to check it out when I get home.

 

Splicing, particularly double braid, is a thing of beauty once you've mastered a method. I learned on a 24 strand from Samson, Velocity. After years of struggle, I attended a workshop with a production splicer. By the time I left I could splice an eye in under ten minutes without breaking sweat. Some of my take home points were consistent marks and measurements, stay relaxed, if your pulling to hard or struggling in general-something's not right. It should be a smooth process. Customize your splicing kit, piano wire and Mig welding wire work well. A ratchet strap and something solid to pull on, like an eye in concrete or a bug lag through a post. A website, treebuzz.com has an outstanding splicing thread (sorry if I shouldn't post that!). That's my 2 cents, I am inspired now-I'm sure there's some three strand here somewhere.

 

dhays-

Can you post a picture of what you're doing with the coat hanger? I'd like to try that. I agree that pulling is probably easier than pushing sometimes.

My large fid has a hollow end for the pusher, but my smaller fids have a hook on the end, presumably to hook the core to pull it through, but it doesn't hold it well enough and the core always slips out of the hook, so I can't complete the splice.

Edit- Ok, so I've learned that I have New England Ropes "Uni fid II" kit. These fids use the hook to pull the core through, like your coat hanger, instead of a pusher. Okay, fine. How do I properly hook the core to this hook so that it doesn't slip out when I pull it through??

 

Coat hangers heat up and break, and they don't last as long, metal fatigue. Piano wire, or other slim, rugged and semi stiff wires work, some offshore fishing leads. My best is Mig welding wire. Pulling always works better, you can feel mistakes or challenges. A good permanent marker is a must. You can try talking to a production or veteran spliced to get their standard measurements. Another good tool is a set of small picks and awls. sharp scissors and masking tape.After pushing the wire loop through the core to ready to pull back, hook the other end up to a small ratchet strap to extract the tail. I had an eye in the floor specifically for pulling dbl braid eyes together. Sorry for rambling/bouncing around, new here and figuring out navigation.

 

I have all the stuff you're listing except the piano wire or mig wire. I still don't understand how you're attaching the core to it, to pull it through. Got a sketch or photo?

 

You just bend a loop in the end of the wire. A very narrow loop, and the core gets wedged in there. I almost always tape the core/cover to the fid, as I don't have the kit w/ the hook in it.

The hook kit, should be able to just stuff the core into the fid, and pull back. That should set the hook into the core......... in theory.

 

I've been taping too, without success. I have a better visual about what you're doing though. I'll give it a try.