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As a cruiser I am much more concerned about getting covid from the locals than they should be from me. If I got it, it was from them.
I think it's a little arrogant to be suggesting what "the locals" should and shouldn't be concerned about. The virus doesn't care who got it first. Even if you got it from "the locals", then you can give it right back to another one of "the locals" - even if you're vaccinated (and especially if you're asymptomatic). They want to test you because they don't want more disease vectors in their land. It's their right.
I don't have to accept anything.
If you want to visit a foreign land, you kind of have to live by their rules. If you choose to stay home, then I agree that you don't have to accept anything.
 
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The ability of a virus to perpetuate itself is a numbers game. It’s not solely a question of whether it can cause infection in a given vaccinated individual, it’s a question of how many carriers exist at any point in time.
 

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We neither can nor need to get to zero. Just low enough.
I disagree that we cannot get to zero. In fact, I think we really must get to zero. Polio was 100% eradicated in the US in 1979. We need to take a long, hard look at what has changed since then. We would have never eradicated polio with the current climate of misinformation.

Settling for "low enough" is a fallacy. 100% eradication may be the only way to prevent future vaccine-resistant variants of COVID from emerging. It will take a much higher vaccination rate than we have now, and probably continued mitigation such as distancing, masking, and testing until we get closer to 100% eradication. (Don't agree? We'll find out over time.) The US is still at 70,000 new infections daily (higher than the July 2020 peak), and over 90% of them are unvaccinated. If the anti-vax attitudes continue to propagate, we could see a resurgence of polio, measles, mumps, rubella, as well as never-ending waves of COVID.

The overriding pandemic is one of misinformation, and its ramifications go far beyond the medical dangers posed by the anti-vaxxers.
 
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In fact, I think we really must get to zero.
Not physically possible in a global pandemic, with this level of transmissibility. Measles still exists for the same reason. Polio was more easily contained, as it didn’t spread via proximity.

By low enough, I mean to the level by which it can’t find enough hosts, in which to incubate and propagate. That’s the epidemic math.

Upsetting that people won’t vaccinate.
 

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Ironically, Polio still exists (and is getting worse) in certain countries only because of misinformation and conspiracy campaigns against the vaccine. This has allowed a new mutation to occur in the past year or two that escapes the vaccine. Otherwise, it would have been eradicated by now.

Mark
 

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By low enough, I mean to the level by which it can’t find enough hosts, in which to incubate and propagate. That’s the epidemic math.
Sounds like you're saying "low enough" is a stepping stone to full eradication. I have no problem with that, however continued diligence (i.e., vaccine mandates in schools, just like for polio and MMR, and distancing/masking where vaccines can't be assured) must continue until we are at full eradication in the US.
Not physically possible in a global pandemic, with this level of transmissibility. Measles still exists for the same reason. Polio was more easily contained, as it didn’t spread via proximity.
Actually the R0 for polio is around 4-6, which is at least double original COVID. It is highly transmissible. I haven't seen the R0 for delta variant. [EDIT: Just looked it up. Delta variant is 6-7, so as bad or worse than polio. But polio was highly transmissible, like COVID.]
 

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trying to understand this argument following the "rules" of what an argument is.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The premises of this argument is
"fully vaccinated people do not need been tested"
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the conclusion is
" fully vacinated person has covid, they AREN'T bringing it to your covid free place"
================================================================

In logic and philosophy, an argument is a series of statements (in a natural language), called the premises or premisses (both spellings are acceptable), intended to determine the degree of truth of another statement, the conclusion.[1][2][3][4][5] The logical form of an argument in a natural language can be represented in a symbolic formal language, and independently of natural language formally defined "arguments" can be made in math and computer science.
 

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We just arrived after an eight day passage in beautiful San Juan, Puerto Rico a few hours ago. No special quarantine requirements, it’s just like going state to state. Weather is excellent and the people very pleasant and nice. Going out for some local cuisine tomorrow and a tour of the historic fort.

It sounds to me like many on this forum need to venture out more often and quit complaining.

Life is short.
 

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It sounds to me like many on this forum need to venture out more often and quit complaining.
Who exactly are you talking about?

I hope you're not saying that because of this post, which makes dubious assumptions about people here:
I take it a few of you have not left your house since the start of covid. Right as that is the only way to be sure. If you have left to go to the store, everyone there had a test before arriving right?
FWIW, I fly on sold-out airlines every week (and did that throughout the entire pandemic). Not everyone is tested, but the airlines require masks for everyone with 100% enforcement. I wear genuine 3M K95 masks on the plane (as well as a face shield if we're during an outbreak "wave"). And because I am putting myself at risk every week, I wear masks in all indoor public spaces to protect others from the risks that I take by flying so much. And to protect ourselves from the anti-vaxxers who also refuse to wear masks, my wife and I both wear KN95 masks that provide some protection to us when we're inside public spaces.

We venture out as much as we want, and we "walk the talk" by taking appropriate precautions. We consider it a small price for having the freedom to go out safely.
 
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We are on boats. Many of us own boats or have the time and means to use them. We are living the dream. But for various reasons today we cannot freely go wherever we want whenever we want without following some additional rules. That's the existential crisis? IMHO it's going to be hard get a lot of people out holding signs saying "covid rules unfair to cruisers on yachts."

I think the real discussion here is when should a cruiser decide to move on hard? When have we really changed our priorities and when is it just a bad few days? I'm willing to bet there isn't a single person who cruised long term that didn't have a day when the head plugged, the generator wouldn't start, the fridge stopped working, and the main halyard chaffed through that said, I've had enough. But have you had enough, or is it just a rough patch?

That's how this thread started. A worthy discussion associated with sailing and cruising.
 

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young couple (everybody looks younger to me) just returned from their northeast summer cruising, they decided to put the boat for sale, looks like may try farming?for the little pieces I was able to get, will be meeting with them some time later.
They started about 3 years ago, no previous experience on sailing, first boat, a 36 ft C&C?, his idea was to circumnavigate.
My reaction was to start smaller and expand, first season spent on the Bahamas and returned with mixed feelings, swimming and snorkeling was good, the routine and living in close quarters not so much.
They decided to try again, on the northeast, not sure what path actually they took, on return as mentioned boat for sale and moving on.
I give them a high mark, they set a goal and gave it an honest try.
And more importantly, they are still a couple!!!
Could things have worked different with different planning?may be.
We expect more boats will be coming into the market as the pandemic craziness wears off and all those fantasy and unrealistic plans end.
Sailing is a sport and physical activity like many other sports, cruising on the other hand is a way of life, a way of life that requires sailing skills as well as personality traits that are unique, not everybody meet those requirements.
And of course, the initial question on this thread opened the reality nothing is forever, and we change on our goals and lifestyle as time and circumstances change.
Only if we are flexible enough may pursue our search of living to our full potential, and that my dear Watson is the question.

Sayonara and Mahalo plenty
 

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I suppose for many sailors the idea of sailing off to visit all sorts of exotic places taking their home with them has enormous appeal. I for one really dislike flying... packing a small bag... finding a hotel... and doing tourism. It works for big cities like Barcelona, Paris, London. But there are all those beautiful places off the beaten track on the water...and lots in the tropics. Sounds like a plan. If you can do a downwind plan even better.
Sailors starting on USA East coast are going to be sailing hard on the wind to get to the eastern Caribbean most of the time. This is no fun if your always sailing heeled way over. At least the weather is pleasant. I would imagine that many decide this sort of sailing is not so pleasant... and decide that they've been there done that and it's time for something else. Perhaps they decide to become weekend local sailors going out with a fair forecast... but no exotic locations. The coast is full of lovely destinations... Or maybe the care of a boat is too much for the "fun" owning a boat can provide and they chose to exit and do something else for their leisure activity like RVing, skiing, etc.
I suspect it may become a cost / benefit analysis. Cost means both work and money. We love staying aboard in a lovely harbor whether we sail or not. But the boat still needs to be maintained. We don't have the urge to day sail... been there done that. We still love fair weather sailing. I will give it one more season and see how that goes.... but I will start preparing a Sale by Owner listing, Almost had a partnership which was a way to have our cake and eat it too. That fell through. Hope springs eternal.
 

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We are on boats. Many of us own boats or have the time and means to use them. We are living the dream. But for various reasons today we cannot freely go wherever we want whenever we want without following some additional rules. That's the existential crisis? IMHO it's going to be hard get a lot of people out holding signs saying "covid rules unfair to cruisers on yachts."

I think the real discussion here is when should a cruiser decide to move on hard? When have we really changed our priorities and when is it just a bad few days? I'm willing to bet there isn't a single person who cruised long term that didn't have a day when the head plugged, the generator wouldn't start, the fridge stopped working, and the main halyard chaffed through that said, I've had enough. But have you had enough, or is it just a rough patch?

That's how this thread started. A worthy discussion associated with sailing and cruising.
I cruise but haven’t given up my real estate. But your entry required me to tell you there are days I wake up and my house’s refrigerator is broken, the roof is leaking, my front door lock won’t work, the garage door is broken, termites are swarming indoors, a family of raccoons is razzing me 15 feet from my back door, the property taxes are due and the insurance premium is going up. Oh, and there‘s a cat 5 hurricane barreling towards my house but I can’t sail it elsewhere. That’s when I turn to my hubby and beg him to sell out and move aboard. I’m a gypsy and don’t care about the house, except it must be maintained. He’s the one who won’t live aboard.
 
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