[dhornsey]

Hi All,

Our 31 foot boat is supposed to be a cutter, but has never been sailed as one. I've recently rigged our inner fore-stay and want to set up a loose-footed stay-sail, no boom.

My question is about where to place the tracks for the sheet lead-blocks. It could be on the cabin top, or on the rail. If on the cabin top, the tracks will be much closer to the center line of the boat, obviously.

Do you know of any advantages or disadvantages to either option?

Thanks, as always,
-D

 

[sailingfool]

The trim angle of the jib is a determining factor as to how close to the wind the sail can be trimmed. generally, the closer, the better, to some limit. Small jibs can often be trimming inside the shroud base, since they don't need to go around the stays. I beleive a staysail should be trimmed a little closer than the foresail, so i would think you would want tracks well in from the toerail.

However i would expect that the boat designer has worked all this out and if you do some homework, you should be able to find a deck plan or its equivalent, which should remove the need for guessing.

 

[Faster]

Once again I agree with SF.. the PSC Mariah 31 is a pretty standard boat.. even looking through pictures on Yachtworld, for instance, should yield some examples of what others (or the factory) have done!

 

[camaraderie]

It goes on the coach roof just inside the AFT handrails:
http://newimages.yachtworld.com/2/0/0/5/8/2005874_9.jpg?1227709685000

Not a Mariah...but same principle should apply. Keep it in close for better windward performance.

 

[JohnRPollard]

the PSC Mariah 31 is a pretty standard boat..

Most of the Mariah's I've seen had self tacking, club-footed staysails with an athwartship traveller just forward of the mast.

This boat has a long sprit, with the staysail tacked at or near the stem, where most boats would secure their jib/genoa tack. So the proper location for any sheet leads ends up being quite a bit further forward than on the PSC Crealock 31 shown in Camaraderie's photo.

I definitely would not put those tracks on the toe rail -- I think they'd be too far outboard for close reaching. And the side decks are probably too narrow to accommodate them. So Cam's photo does a good job of showing approximately how far inboard they probably ought to go.

The Crealock 31 has molded in pads for the staysail lead tracks, so there's no doubt where the tracks go. I don't recall seeing any on the Mariahs. My suggestion would be to work with your sailmaker to decide how large the staysail will be, then with those dimensions in hand figure the proper place for the tracks. My hunch is it will be further forward than on the Crealock 31.

P.S. I always liked the self-tacking aspect of the Mariah's staysail (if not the club foot).

 

[dhornsey]

Thanks for the input guys. As far as figuring out what other Mariahs have done, I am coming up short. Like John mentioned, most Mariahs are rigged club footed, which I'm trying to avoid, just due to personal preference. Plus the original owner made modifications to the rig & sail plan - meaning we're pretty much a one off. I appreciate the picture of the crealock, I should have thought to look for similar boats on yachtworld. Maybe a westsail or a southern cross 31.

Thanks again.

 

[GBurton]

I'm currently setting up my staysail tracks on my Westsail 32. Like you I'm looking for optimum position for the tracks (I am going loose footed as well)The best I have seen is in this picture - the tracks are angled for more sheeting options.

 

[dhornsey]

Thanks GBurton. I just read up on your thread over at westsail.org as well. Do you have any insight into why westsail has layed out the tracks on an angle like that? What is the advantage?

 

[islandplanet]

We've built a couple of self-tending staysails recently for boats that added a curved section of track running across the foredeck. One was a MacGregor 65 and the other was a Tayana 42. There is less margin for error building these kind of staysails as opposed to conventional jibs. Sometimes a clewboard is helpful as it gives you some different choices on where the sheet attaches. On boats with heavier loads the clewboard should be webbed on, not riveted. If you are buying a self tacking staysail over the internet make sure you are working with someone who knows what they are doing. You should be asked for some very detailed measurements regarding the track layout. Without getting into too much detail we have our customers give us the location of the center and ends of track both vertically and horizontally with reference to certain points. Sheeting angle gets worked out from a measurement made from the position of 45% hoist.

Both of the sails I mentioned came out beautifully and the owners were quite pleased. The Tayana 42 was a local boat that I measured and the Mac 65 was out of town but we coached the owner through the measuring process.

 

[T34C]

ip- brings up a good point. Why not make a self tacking staysail that is loose footed? You don't have to have a jib boom to make it self tending.

 

[dhornsey]

I believe to get correct sail shape our sheet blocks will need to be mounted slightly aft of the mast, so a curved track in front of the mast isn't an option for us.

I found one guy online who has attached a block to the clew of his staysail, and has it rigged to run on a single line. Self tending, but it seems like a very unusual arrangement to me, I imagine it would behave quite strangely when sheeting in or out... any comments on this?

http://corbin39.com/qanda/staysail2.JPG

 

[dhornsey]

Also... is there some way for me to resize an image like the one in my previous post?? Sorry for stretching the thread...

 

[Faster]

Resize the picture in any photo management program, like MS Photo Manager or others, then resave it as repost it.

Odd that that picture shows a traveller track for a self tending staysail on the cabin top already - though it looks like the current staysail clew is too far aft for it. I suppose the arrangement may work, but it will be difficult to control leech tension with that setup.

 

[JohnRPollard]

Also... is there some way for me to resize an image like the one in my previous post?? Sorry for stretching the thread...

Whoa nellie! Yeah, that's a jumbo photo for sure.

You should go back to your photo-hosting website and choose a smaller format for this photo. It's hard to get much perspective with it being so large...

 

[sailingdog]

That's an odd sheeting setup, especially considering that the inner staysail is generally going to be used in heavier weather quite often, and you'd want to be able to sheet the staysail as flat as possible.

There are single line, self-tacking setups for jibs/staysails that don't require a boom, but the generally do require that the staysail be cut a bit smaller than you would without a self-tacking setup. Using curved traveler track is quite common, especially if you look at some of the smaller boats, like the Sonars-where I've seen them setup that way quite regularly.

JRP-

He'll have to resize the photo using something like IrfanView, since he's hosting the photos on his own site by the looks of it and not using a photo hosting website like Flickr.

 

[JohnRPollard]

JRP-

He'll have to resize the photo using something like IrfanView, since he's hosting the photos on his own site by the looks of it and not using a photo hosting website like Flickr.

Thanks Dog! I didn't know about that option --- well beyond my paygrade.

 

[GBurton]

You're welcome. I think the track is angled so that when close hauled it can be sheeted in close but you still have the option of moving the clew position out for a beam reach or broad reach/run.
Thats just what I surmise - More experienced/knowledgeable sailors feel free to correct me.

Thanks GBurton. I just read up on your thread over at westsail.org as well. Do you have any insight into why westsail has layed out the tracks on an angle like that? What is the advantage?

 

[dhornsey]

I removed the jumbo image and replaced it with a link. It's not my image or my site, just something I found online.

 

[dhornsey]

I finally found an image of another Mariah rigged in this fashion. You can just barely see the track there. It also appears to have the track mounted on an angle out from center, like the picture that GBurton posted. I'll have to do some more research on why that is done...

Thanks for all the replies.

 

[Faster]

I finally found an image of another Mariah rigged in this fashion. You can just barely see the track there. It also appears to have the track mounted on an angle out from center, like the picture that GBurton posted. I'll have to do some more research on why that is done...

Here's a theory... as the wind pipes up you generally ease the leads aft.. allows some twist to depower the upper part of the sail and ease the heeling forces. Moving the lead outboard at the same time reduces the angle of attack, again easing pressure.. perhaps at the cost of some pointing ability. But it also eases the backwinding of the mainsail ..