[Minnewaska]

Did I miss what the yard has to say about the damage they caused and how they are going to repair it?

 

[civdis24]

Did I miss what the yard has to say about the damage they caused and how they are going to repair it?

Yea... We're gonna talk to them about it on Friday. A friend of mine thinks we should file an insurance claim but we also want to tread lightly. I mean I guess it is their fault as the boat had just been surveyed and didn't have any voids or anything that could have caused that spot to be weakened. I'm not sure what I could say that they did wrong other than that the boat should have had more than the four posts of the cradle. It was also very slightly listed to the effected Side which may have changed the center of gravity enough to force the damage. Otherwise the boat appears to be resting on its keel. We were also not present during haul out... And didn't know any better at the time.

 

[Jaramaz]

Did I miss what the yard has to say about the damage they caused and how they are going to repair it?

Did they?

Not so sure.
- The yard could rightly assume that the craddle was correctly dimensioned wrt pad size, and that owner does have some responsibility.
- The boat is said to lean somewhat, but does anyone know if this was there from the moment the boat was placed in the craddle?
- In any case, normally, a hull can take the load from some slight leaning. (I always lean my boat on the hard).
- the damage we have seen indicates hull is not as strong as it should have been. The stringer should not break for such a preassure.
- Did the owner say that he just furled the headsail? On the hard? Meaning mast was on, and with some extra wind load from the furled headsail.
- do we know anything about how the boat was supported (owners responsibility)?. With the mast on, with the furled headsail, and maybe not as tight supported as it should have been, then the boat could have started to rock back and forth - this is not an unlikely scenario.

The owner gives the impression to be a new boat owner, rather new to boat handling (that is OK, we have all been there). That is not the best position to start accusing the yard for neglect.

If it was me, I would have fixed the repairs myself. This as I know how to do it. For a new owner ... the best alternative may be to contact the insurance company.

/J

 

[Minnewaska]

Did the cradle come with the boat or did the yard provide it?

 

[christian.hess]

if the boat was listed come on guys! thats boatyard 101!

Im not one to sue ever, have never done it, but when something like this happens id let them know it and have it big time...

while a LOT of boats have spft spots, and shouldnt be laid up for prolonged periods in certain spots...

it was excarcebated by being listed and supprted in only certain areas...too inwards...

at least try to get some yard work or materials or yard time for free or deep discount or something but dont just let them get away with this

its very very bad work, and any respectable yard should be looking at ways to make you happy and be safe with your boat

like others and myself have mentioned there are ways to fix this...sometimes you get lucky and the hull pops back out but it does look like the stringer is bent or slightly cracked inwards so you at the least need to fix that, and if you are not comfortabledoing that yourself that means you need to spend a chunk of change to have someone else do it

and the yard should be bending over backwards to facilitate that!

thats my advice

dont just sue, and file a claim take action and make your opinion heard

I see responsibility in both parties owner and yard btw...

 

[meteuz]

Is it just my imagination or is that hull pad bent to a convex shape in the second picture. Maybe the plywood was too thin or waterlogged, which caused the load to be concentrated at the metal fitting rather than spread out over the whole pad surface. That might be something to look at for next year for all of the pads.

 

[CalebD]

Once your boat gets back into it's natural element (water) the hull will relax and any indentation should correct itself.

If there is any repair work to be done I would do it once the boat is back in the water and had a chance to resume it's normal shape.

After over 10 years of owning a sailboat I have had this happen several times over the winter with our cradle. It has only been a minor annoyance, at best.

Next winter haul out be sure to remove both sails from the boat and try to be there when they do.

 

[Jaramaz]

Once your boat gets back into it's natural element (water) the hull will relax and any indentation should correct itself.

Maybe, maybe not.

If there is any repair work to be done I would do it once the boat is back in the water and had a chance to resume it's normal shape.

Well, there is this about making repairs in a dry hull, with a good and even temp. GRP works are best done on the dry, in a controlled environment, where the GRP can harden fast - as it should. GRP hardening is very dependant on temp.

After over 10 years of owning a sailboat I have had this happen several times over the winter with our cradle. It has only been a minor annoyance, at best.

Well, after about 50+ years of sailing and 40 years of boat owning .... these things are rare, and should be rare. It is far from the norm. If it happens, one should repair.
Having said that, repairs are easy done and not costly - if DIY.

Next winter haul out be sure to remove both sails from the boat and try to be there when they do.

And why not un-step the mast while on it? As the new owner of the boat you should yourself inspect the mast and all parts of the rig.

BTW: if the boat is to use the same craddle in the future, and to have mast on while on the hard, then further support is strongly recommended. Some elementary mechanics do say that support at bow and stern will minimize movements.

Oh, well ...

/J

 

[civdis24]

The cradle was supplied by the yard. This place is not the most legit boatyard, after all the owners motto is "we're not good but we're cheap". So I suppose you get what you pay for. Again, we are total newbies so the yard just said yea no worries we'll take care of it so the cradle is theirs and we weren't there when it was hauled. Next year we'll be sure to learn from this experience. Also, we inquired about taking down the mast and they said that they like to keep them in now so we just went with the flow.

I wonder how we should approach them tomorrow and I'd really like to get a consensus regarding whether or not we should put her back in or repair on the hard

 

[Jaramaz]

By coincidence I just found a GRP repair handbook on the net: in Sailing and Yachting Downloads Marine Engione Manuals scroll down a fair bit, and there will be a link to a handbook in pdf.
- I have not read it, do not take any responsibility and many other can probably be found on the net. This is rather established knowledge, most are probaly very similar.

Reading this doesn't mean one must have to do the work. But one gets more informed, understanding of the basics, and know what is expected to happen. It is easy to work with GRP, but maybe not comfortable.

/J

PS: Bluemoment is a nice homepage, BTW

 

[ambianceack]

Can you use a boat stand to relieve the weight on that side of the cradle then assess any exterior damage?

 

[civdis24]

Yea, that's what I'd like to do today

 

[tempest]

Civdis,

I would approach the yard as a new boat owner and simply ask them what they think happened here; then, ask them if they can add a separate jackstand or two to either side of this cradle pad so you and they can both inspect the hull. They should certainly be willing to do that for you, at the very least. You should be able to get a feel from them as you both inspect the vessel together whether or not they are going to volunteer any responsibility or contribute to the repair.

I know you weren't there when they put you in the cradle, but did you return shortly afterward and was the boat leaning when you did?

 

[civdis24]

Civdis,

I would approach the yard as a new boat owner and simply ask them what they think happened here; then, ask them if they can add a separate jackstand or two to either side of this cradle pad so you and they can both inspect the hull. They should certainly be willing to do that for you, at the very least. You should be able to get a feel from them as you both inspect the vessel together whether or not they are going to volunteer any responsibility or contribute to the repair.

I know you weren't there when they put you in the cradle, but did you return shortly afterward and was the boat leaning when you did?

Yea it was, ever so slightly. We noticed it but didn't figure it was a problem...

 

[christian.hess]

bummer...they will likely argue that...

let us know what happens and if you need any help with the fix.

 

[civdis24]

Update: Today we went down to the boat. The yard owner wasn't there but we showed the problem to the yard man and he helped us relieve the stress to that area with two additional jack stands. On Monday we're going to try to jack up enough to lower the cradle pad and tackle the repairs.http://i.imgur.com/08cBo1k.jpg

Also, we worked on the rudder. We drilled a couple holes and drained a lot of water. At first it was clear and I was relieved but then it got rustier... Here's a picture of what drained out: http://i.imgur.com/dEitlLO.jpg?2 It's like a quart of water and it was still slowly draining when we left. On Monday we're going to do some major work on the rudder, and our plan is to patch it up for now and possibly buy a new rudder for next year and really do a full overhaul on this one as a winter project.

 

[Jaramaz]

Update: Today we went down to the boat. The yard owner wasn't there but we showed the problem to the yard man and he helped us relieve the stress to that area with two additional jack stands. On Monday we're going to try to jack up enough to lower the cradle pad and tackle the repairs.http://i.imgur.com/08cBo1k.jpg

First step; looks good. Did the yard man offer any .. explanations?
Now, this pic does show that someone has put some bricks / stones under the craddle - luxary! That indicates the yard has taken some action.

Also, we worked on the rudder. We drilled a couple holes and drained a lot of water. At first it was clear and I was relieved but then it got rustier... Here's a picture of what drained out: http://i.imgur.com/dEitlLO.jpg?2 It's like a quart of water and it was still slowly draining when we left. On Monday we're going to do some major work on the rudder, and our plan is to patch it up for now and possibly buy a new rudder for next year and really do a full overhaul on this one as a winter project.

Isn't that what you would expect? First some clear liquid, followed by some not so clear liquid ... more rust particles.
Again, you "must" try to investigate the rudder. Some rust in the water from the rudder is more or less expected. As was pointed out earlier - is there any damages from freezing? What can be seen? Look, and listen.

On one hand, what you have seen now doesn't have to mean that there are any structural damages. Some discolored water, some stains on the outside - nothing.
But then, on the other hand, one should be able to rely on the rudder.

In a situation like this ... try to get some professional to have a look. A new rudder is expensive (I guess).

/J

 

[CalebD]

Your hull will regain it's normal shape and probably has with the addition of those 2 jack stands. By the way, those jack stands are improperly deployed: they are supposed to be chained together at ground level and used on opposite sides of the boat.

Your leaky rudder is a different story and not likely not caused by your boat yard. It was a farging cold winter here reaching down to 0F a few times so you likely have some ice damage inside your rudder. How bad is it? Hard to tell.

At a minimum you might consider barrier coating your rudder with epoxy and filling & fairing any obvious entry for water into the rudder.
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[Minnewaska]

You would not find me knowingly aboard a boat that had a quart of rusty water drained from its rudder, without a proper repair.