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Asleep at the wheel
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3,016 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Da na na na na...
Got my stuffing box apart...
da na na na na...
brought it on home...
da na na na na...
got it all cleaned up...
da na na na na...
but now the hose is so tight...

Well it's, so tight baby, I can't get the fitting in...

So now I'm singin' ... singin' the stuffing box blues.

OK, ok, I'll stop. But, seriously, the ID for the Buck Algonquin hose is 1 3/4", and the OD for the fitting (the stuffing box body) is about 1 7/8". That extra 1/8" makes it REALLY tough to get it to fit. I left the heat gun on the boat, so that's not an option. Can I boil some water and let the hose soak in it? What other tips do you have for getting it to fit?

Any tips that would also translate well for when I'm installing this on the boat (which I presume has a similarly over-size fitting) are also appreciated.

Before anyone asks...yes, I have 4 of the hose clamps, not just the 2 in the picture.

 

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S/V Wyndwitch - Morgan 24
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473 Posts
Da na na na na...
Got my stuffing box apart...
da na na na na...
brought it on home...
da na na na na...
got it all cleaned up...
da na na na na...
but now the hose is so tight...

Well it's, so tight baby, I can't get the fitting in...

So now I'm singin' ... singin' the stuffing box blues.

OK, ok, I'll stop. But, seriously, the ID for the Buck Algonquin hose is 1 3/4", and the OD for the fitting (the stuffing box body) is about 1 7/8". That extra 1/8" makes it REALLY tough to get it to fit. I left the heat gun on the boat, so that's not an option. Can I boil some water and let the hose soak in it? What other tips do you have for getting it to fit?

Any tips that would also translate well for when I'm installing this on the boat (which I presume has a similarly over-size fitting) are also appreciated.

Before anyone asks...yes, I have 4 of the hose clamps, not just the 2 in the picture.

Enquiring Minds want to Know (i have to do this in May) :)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
 

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Master Mariner
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9,225 Posts
I do believe you are going to have to get the right hose. I wouldn't waste my time trying to fit the two together. Using enough heat to get that hose all the way on the gland will most likely damage the hose and weaken it considerably. This is a semi permanent installation, so it makes no sense not doing it right the first time.
 
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Registered
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25,130 Posts
The o.d. of the shaft log is presumably going to be the same as the stuffing box, so you're in for a nightmare back aboard as well. You need the right size hose. You can't stretch an internally reinforced hose. An 1/8" is a lot. I've had nightmares trying to retrofit SAE hoses onto metric fittings that were so close, you could hardly tell.
 

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Over Hill Sailing Club
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3,688 Posts
The barbs on that nipple look rounded over. Maybe you should consider replacing the whole unit. It's possible someone may have used a file on it already when they had the same problem you're having. Heating it up enough to stretch it that far is a bad idea. I would not take a chance with something so inaccessible and critical to staying afloat. Maybe you'll get lucky and the new threaded part will be the same as the old so you can leave the hull side on.
 

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Super Moderator
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6,819 Posts
Unfortunately you will need an 1 7/8" hose. It is too bad builders went this route but back in the day they went with the cheapest vendors and often times the cheapest vendors used odd ball sizes.. You will need to try and source a 4 ply non-wire reinforced wet exhaust hose. I was able to find one a few years ago but can't remember where. If you can't find a 4 ply then you will need to use a 2 ply such as Shields #200. Call Trident and Shields and see what they have in 1 7/8" in a 4 ply no-wire hose....

T-Band clamps should not be used in bilge areas! The spot welds are prone to crevice corrosion and failure.... Use AWAB 316SS no-perforated clamps...
 

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Asleep at the wheel
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3,016 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
James, as I look at having to replace more and more of the stuffing box, the PSS is becoming more cost-effective. I may have to bite the bullet and install one.

Thanks to everyone for weighing in. I thought maybe I was nuts, or not doing something right. As JimsCAL pointed out, the only hose sizes I saw were 1.75" and 2". The 2" is listed as being for a larger diameter prop shaft, so I decided to go with the 1.75". I didn't even realize that there WAS an intermediate size!

Main Sail, thanks for your feedback, especially about the band clamps.

What I'm now having trouble understanding is how the shaft log works. On my boat, there is a large metal plate in the area where the shaft passes through the hull. The shaft log (I hope I'm using the right term; it's the pipe/tube that the shaft actually passes through) appears to be integrated into this metal plate. Am I wrong? Does the shaft log somehow get fitted into the metal piece (e.g., is it threaded in)?

The picture is big, so I'm not going to embed it in the thread, but here's a picture of the shaft log area. It's tough to make everything out because of the corrosion:

http://dragonwingsailboat.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/img_3667.jpg

If I go with a PSS, will I avoid having to replace the shaft log?
 

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One of None
Hunter 34
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8,647 Posts
Jim the PSS bellow tube still needs to go onto the shaft log tube. So it's still about ID and OD sizes.
I did a PSS on my boat some 5 yrs ago, no regrets. and there is dust where there used to be water dripping :)

This looks so easy under "show conditions" LOL
PSS Install Video - YouTube

Shaft alignment;

what shaft logs look like. there are many types, but yours is most likely something like this. In my boat it's a FG tube.

 
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Asleep at the wheel
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
OK, a few more questions. In the picture in my original post, the stuffing box body has barbs. I agree with smurphny, the barbs are more rounded over than pointy. Assuming this was new, and the barbs were pointier, would you measure the diameter at the tip of the pointy part of the barb, or would you measure the diameter as the base of the barb? I was trying to see how big of a difference there was between the ID of the hose and the thing that I was trying to fit into the hose. When I got the 1 7/8", I was measuring right at the "mouth", and did not take the barb height into account.

When I look at the stuffing boxes sold by Hamilton Marine (e.g., Packing Box Body 1"" Plain bronze 1""), I see that they don't have barbs at all. So, is the rounded nature of my barbs a problem?

The reason I ask is that I know I can find 2" hose. With the barb height, I might be close to 2" (I'm at work and can't measure right now). If the stuffing box body really is 1 7/8", then I'm going to assume that the shaft log is also 1 7/8" (I'll measure to be sure before I buy anything). Given that I can't get the better quality hose in the size that I need, I am naturally a bit concerned about safety. If this was above the waterline, I wouldn't worry as much. But this is kind of an important part. In that case, I may go with the PSS. But, there again, I need to know the size of the shaft log and how to measure it properly, because (as is almost always the case when my luck is involved) PSS sells one that fits 1 3/4 to 1 7/8", and they sell another one that is for 2".
 

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Corsair 24
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4,594 Posts
I think you measured right bud...fwiw well actually edit I think you should measure the tube diameter at the highest point since you are looking at connecting id on the hose and od on the box...so take into account the barb

I dont see any isssues at ALL with warming the new hose up in water and soaping up both ends

I would try this first, it should be tight and it might end up working for you, before you go pss...

just a thought

is the lip or barb corroded? it might be bigger than new, so try removing as much scale and corrosion as possible and try...or is the pic you are showing of a new box? or cleaned up old one?

if still no go go 2 inch psss
 

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Asleep at the wheel
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3,016 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Thanks Denise! I didn't see your post until after I replied above. I think you are probably right about the shape of the shaft log. I think the wide base in the picture you posted is on the outside of my hull, and is bolted to the hull by the bolts you can see in this picture:

http://dragonwingsailboat.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/img_3667.jpg

In looking at my picture more closely, I see that the shaft log does not appear to have barbs. That should simplify the measuring!

is the lip or barb corroded? it might be bigger than new, so try removing as much scale and corrosion as possible and try...
I cleaned all of the corrosion off. I may give the warm water bath and soap idea a try because I really have nothing to lose except damaging the hose. Though, as a practical matter, this isn't going to help me when I get to the boat, because if the shaft log is the same diameter, making it fit is going to be REALLY tough.
 

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One of None
Hunter 34
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8,647 Posts
You're Welcome Jim :)
funny, doing a search for 1-7/8" only PSS comes up for the bellows, they call it a "stern tube" Loose fitting hose will leak even with good clamps!

The barbs on cast bronze parts aren't usually well defined like the machined parts done on lathes
 

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Corsair 24
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4,594 Posts
I think this should be REALLY tight so warming and cussing , and using whatever methods to get it on should be tried

good luck!
 

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Asleep at the wheel
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3,016 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Trident was very nice - they said they don't make a 1 7/8" hose in anything but 2-ply. I did find a company, NovaFlex, who makes a 4-ply marine wet exhaust hose. And they are in West Berlin, NJ (so, relatively close). Unfortunately they don't sell direct. They gave me the name of a reseller in NJ, and the reseller doesn't have the NovaFlex 260 in stock. He's going to see if he can get them to send him a sample that's big enough for my needs. I'm keeping my fingers crossed! Otherwise, it's looking like I'll either have to go with a 2-ply, or do the PSS.

I'd like to do a PSS, but we have some other major expenses coming up and I'd like to put off the cost of the PSS.
 

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Over Hill Sailing Club
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3,688 Posts
It seems kind a strange that there is such a misfit with the available hose sizes. Is it possibly metric? Here's a link to the Buck Algonquin sizes:Packing Boxes for sale. Buy your Packing Boxes today and save. If you can id the exact unit you have maybe you can get the right parts. I do not agree that you should try to stretch a misfitting hose. It should slide over snugly, with a bit of effort. Applying a little hot-water type heat is ok but don't go for the torch! You'll carbonize the rubber and displace the wire inside, weakening the hose.
 
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