[NegotiatedDreams]

I have found 3 boats of the same make/model/length/general layout all within a hundred miles of each other in south florida. they are all early 80s hulls in the 40 foot range. I had this bright idea, which may be a bit impractical when I look into pricing such a scheme, to go look at all 3 over a 2 day trip with my lady and hire a local surveyor to come along and give their opinion of the value of each boat versus the price. that would help me feel like I was getting the most bang for my buck when dropping 100k on my new live aboard.

has this idea been done before? as opposed to the traditional: view.....test sail......negotiate....make an offer pending survey.....survey report.....etc (or something like that) can anyone see any reason why the brokers listing some of these or the individuals listing others would have a problem with doing this?

 

[denverd0n]

I suppose it would work, but...

Personally, I would not pay for a survey on any boat that I had not already examined very closely myself. The fact is that a lot of boats out there are in much worse condition than the advertisements would lead you to believe. I have seen boats described as "sail away condition" that probably should be hauled out of the water, simply because they are in imminent danger of sinking right where they are.

You want to weed out those kinds of boats before you start paying for surveys. The only way to do that is to actually go and look at the boats.

Good luck.

 

[kwaltersmi]

I agree with Denver - You'll probably have a strong sense of your favorite among the three after you personally view and inspect them each. Then make an offer. Then have it surveyed if you can agree on terms/price.

 

[RichH]

Do the preliminary inspection yourself (or by someone you trust that has mechanical skills), then hire a surveyor to validate the 'final' choice.

Such prelim. survey knowledge is available in book form by Don Casey's maintenance manual which includes a section concerning 'boat inspection':

Don Casey's Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual: Including Inspecting the Aging Sailboat, Sailboat Hull and Deck Repair, Sailboat Refinishing, Sailbo: Don Casey: 9780071462846: Amazon.com: [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@51aaqV61D8L

Obviously you'd need to 'study' such a book before you inspect.

 

[Donna_F]

I have found 3 boats of the same make/model/length/general layout all within a hundred miles of each other in south florida. they are all early 80s hulls in the 40 foot range. I had this bright idea, which may be a bit impractical when I look into pricing such a scheme, to go look at all 3 over a 2 day trip with my lady and hire a local surveyor to come along and give their opinion of the value of each boat versus the price. that would help me feel like I was getting the most bang for my buck when dropping 100k on my new live aboard.

...

I'm trying to think through the logistics of this. Our survey took five hours (although it included the test sail, during which the surveyor was on board).

Are you saying you'd ask him to just give a quick eyeball of each boat based on their experience and not provide a full survey?

 

[Skipper Jer]

NegotiatedDreams here is a thread on boat buying. Lots of good info.
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-review-purchase-forum/48177-boat-inspection-trip-tips.html

 

[capecodda]

I maybe the outlier, but here goes.

Assuming this is a first boat of any size for you, you don't know what you don't know yet. In that case, I'd either bring a trusted friend who has lots of experience, or I might do as you say and bring a surveyor. I would not do a full survey of all 3 boats, but I would ask the surveyor to do a fly by on each to see if further analysis makes sense. You don't need a written report. You'll need a surveyor that you have a relationship with, because some may be concerned about liability, and want to do a whole survey or nothing to protect themselves.
You'll need to understand that a fly by is not a survey, and something bad could still come up in survey on what appears to be a good boat. But that risk is always out there.

My friends in the business have a number of tricks to decide if further analysis is worth while. One of my favorites is to look in the bilge, behind lockers, etc. You only have to look a couple of places to get an idea. Go jump on the deck. Is the engine a rust bucket? Do the winches turn? Does the hull look fair. Don's book will give you a big list of these things.

Also, there is something you can do before you take the trip. Try and figure out who the owners are, and how they used the boat. If it's been on hard in some dusty yard for a few years, don't bother. If it's been used regularly by someone who has the time or money to keep it in good working order, make the trip.

Good luck, beware of bargains, and remember the purchase price is the cheapest part of ownership.

 

[Faster]

As Donna said, logistically this is difficult to fathom..

By all means do the 2 day inspection tip.. with a knowledgeable volunteer if possible. Chances are that only one or all of them will have some obvious issues that would preclude bothering with a survey.

Or perhaps hire your surveyor for a road trip with the proviso that these are just 'fly bys' and a full survey will be conducted at some point on a worthy candidate - if you can get a surveyor to agree to that kind of use of his time, at a reasonable rate. We need BoatPoker to tell us if he'd accept such a proposition...

 

[NegotiatedDreams]

i am encouraged by the prospect of the "fly by" survey concept. I would be couroius to hear from surveyors if they would entertain that idea as that is kind of what I had in mind. of course after that step I would negotiate and then if we could make a deal, hire my surveyor to do a full survey with report and all.

I have read plenty about inspection and I am pretty mechanically apt. but there are things that many years of being a surveyor will make them suited to know and I will be ignorant to no matter how good of a checklist I have. a big part of my issue is figuring which boat I can get to where I need it for the best price.

for example if im looking at one boat listed for 60k and another for 90k. the "fly by" might be able to help me determine if I buy the 60k boat it will need another 60k in it before i have it where I want...versus buying the 90k boat and it needs just 10k to outfit it for my needs

 

[Minnewaska]

It sounds like you really just want someone along with a bit more experience in buying boats to help cull the herd. Find that person and bring them along on the trip, buy them dinner and drinks each night, while you pour over your collective observations. You'll probably learn quite a bit.

If you are looking to hire a local accredited surveyor in each market to do a quick look, I don't think this will work well. First, they will be very reluctant to give you feedback without having done an actual survey. If they say she preliminarily looks good, then you find a buried problem, you'll be upset. I don't think their standards will allow them to establish value without a complete survey anyway. On the other hand, some surveyors don't seem to have standards and you don't really want one of those either.

If you were thinking of paying for three complete surveys, you'll have a different problem. Typically, owners will not allow their boat to be picked apart unless they've already accepted a contingent offer from you and received a good faith deposit.

The point made above, that you should learn the story behind the prior owners use is the single biggest filter in my book. Was she cared for like a child, or ridden like a toy and put away wet.

The final, most important issue, no one can help you with. Love at first sight. Does the boat do it for you? Only you will know.

 

[Donna_F]

...

I have read plenty about inspection and I am pretty mechanically apt. but there are things that many years of being a surveyor will make them suited to know and I will be ignorant to no matter how good of a checklist I have. ...

But that's what a surveyor has to offer. If I was a surveyor and provided that expertise during a "fly by," what incentive do you have, after I've said it's a good value, to engage my full services?

 

[capecodda]

Yes, to backup what your hearing, I don't want to leave the impression that you'll be able to get a surveyor on the phone, who you don't know, and get them to agree to doing this quick look. It would have to be a relationship of trust developed between parties. In my neighborhood I know guys who would do it for people they know well, but we've all known each other for decades. In any case, you want to be introduced to your surveyor by someone you know and trust in the business for your own protection, and perhaps with the right introduction you could get this sort of service.

If you don't have this, or don't know someone who knows someone in the area, you might be better off with a knowledgeable friend.

Hope you find something great.

 

[NegotiatedDreams]

Donna,

you make a good point. I guess my thought was that after I had used the surveyor to help me narrow the pool then a proper survey in full would be needed for dealings with the seller and for insurance purposes. also to discover all possible points with a fine tooth comb as they do that I will need to look into before setting out. those fine points that might not have been extensively looked at in the quick look.

 

[capta]

I think what you need is a very experienced 'buyer's broker' rather than a surveyor. The 'buyer's broker' I used had spent many a vacation aboard the same model boat I was looking at and knew them intimately. Any good yacht broker has been involved in many hundreds of boats, going over them with the owners and potential buyers and should have a vast, general knowledge of boats.
I've always felt there was a niche in this business for a 'buyer's broker' who would be with the buyer at the beginning, helping people find the boat that would best serve their needs and desires.

 

[Minnewaska]

The buyer's broker is a good idea, if you can properly negotiate how they'll get paid. If they are on commission, I'm not sure they are as independent as you would really want. A friend uses one to buy his aircraft. The broker is paid a flat fee to help him find the one he's looking for, whether successful or not. It also keeps the selling broker from steering the seller away from you, for having to share commission or a seller that wasn't planning to pay one at all.

Not many are willing to pay the buyer's broker a non-refundable flat fee, win or lose.

 

[seaner97]

I found when boat shopping that some of the ones I looked at had their own surveys done and the owners were willing to provide them. They may have been 2-5 years ago, but at least you could read them over and get an idea of what the concerns were at that time and then what the owner had done to address them. This was not universal, but was a really good place to start. It also gave you an idea of what to expect from the surveyors as far as documentation and completeness. Then find your "boat buddy" and go over them yourself and hire the surveyor when you've settled on the one and had your offer accepted contingent on survey. Similar to buying a house- inspection comes after offer has been accepted.