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Discussion Starter #1
I thought I would start a new thread so this is kind of an extension of the "Surveying is not poetry" thread.

Wow, what a waist of time and money.
We received our survey report back yesterday and there were a lot of error's and omissions.
There was no mention of any sails and he completely missed the secondary anchor.
The anchor rode went from being 180' of 5/16" BBB to 1/4" chain of unknown length with no mention of the 400+ feet of 3/4' line.
Apparently, someone has changed all the through hulls from tapered ones to ball valves, although he did mention that the boat yard had just serviced them.
The description of the boat was a cut and paste from the cncphotoalblum's website.
He mentioned 2, 2lb fire extinguishers when there are 3, 4lb fire extinguishers in clear and plain view. He said there was no fume/vapor alarm system present when there is one.
And it goes on and on. He also missed a pile of stuff the boat yard has already gone over with me that will be fixed before she goes back in the water.
He did mention how he was impressed by the "high standard of maintenance" the boat had received over the years and that it was in "very good shape".
But here's the kicker, he placed a value on it of $25,000 and a replacement cost of,........what for it.......$135,000. My insurance broker and I had a good laugh about that.
This survey, for a 1981 C&C32 cost us $434.70 our annual insurance premium with a million dollar liability will be about half of the cost of the survey.
I sent a letter to my insurance provider with all of the corrections and omissions that I saw and could think of. They thanked me for that and said that they have had many similar issue's when dealing with surveyors. All they really need to know is that the boat isn't going to sink anytime soon and that they need an unbiased value placed on the boat.
So now I can go and spend thousands on moorage, Yeh!
 

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And exactly what are the qualifications required to work as a surveyor???

I would encourage anyone looking for a surveyor to check with locals to see who they might recommend and also SAMS.
 

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I thought I would start a new thread so this is kind of an extension of the "Surveying is not poetry" thread.

Wow, what a waist of time and money.
We received our survey report back yesterday and there were a lot of error's and omissions.
There was no mention of any sails and he completely missed the secondary anchor.
The anchor rode went from being 180' of 5/16" BBB to 1/4" chain of unknown length with no mention of the 400+ feet of 3/4' line.
Apparently, someone has changed all the through hulls from tapered ones to ball valves, although he did mention that the boat yard had just serviced them.
The description of the boat was a cut and paste from the cncphotoalblum's website.
He mentioned 2, 2lb fire extinguishers when there are 3, 4lb fire extinguishers in clear and plain view. He said there was no fume/vapor alarm system present when there is one.
And it goes on and on. He also missed a pile of stuff the boat yard has already gone over with me that will be fixed before she goes back in the water.
He did mention how he was impressed by the "high standard of maintenance" the boat had received over the years and that it was in "very good shape".
But here's the kicker, he placed a value on it of $25,000 and a replacement cost of,........what for it.......$135,000. My insurance broker and I had a good laugh about that.
This survey, for a 1981 C&C32 cost us $434.70 our annual insurance premium with a million dollar liability will be about half of the cost of the survey.
I sent a letter to my insurance provider with all of the corrections and omissions that I saw and could think of. They thanked me for that and said that they have had many similar issue's when dealing with surveyors. All they really need to know is that the boat isn't going to sink anytime soon and that they need an unbiased value placed on the boat.
So now I can go and spend thousands on moorage, Yeh!
If I were in your shoes and you live in a locale that allows for Small Claims Court actions, I'd spend the filing fee and see if I couldn't get the "Surveyor's" fee refunded. Based upon your representations, that "Survey" was entirely worthless (and I surely would not have sent it to an insurer!).
 

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Very sloppy job. Makes you wanna question the value of a survey when you are buying a boat.
 

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We had a near identical experience last year for our insurance survey.

But here's the kicker, he placed a value on it of $25,000 and a replacement cost of,........what for it.......$135,000. My insurance broker and I had a good laugh about that.
The 'replacement' value is what they think it would cost to build and equip that boat today.. so the $135K is not out of line on that basis. The $25K is, of course, disappointing and hurts to boot.

It would be one thing if an 'insurance' survey that took under an hour (and therefore obviously less than thorough) cost a reasonable $100-150.... but at at least 75% the cost of a 'real' survey it is, as I mentioned in the other thread, a rip-off.

I do think the insurance companies are to blame in this debacle too, though, as they don't make any differentiation between a new boat owner and people with 30 years or more experience.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well, overall the survey came out in my favour given the value of the boat stated. I paid $25,000 for it two and a half years ago and it will be insured for that amount. The $135,000 replacement cost is laughable.
It was for insurance purposes and there was enough information in the report for the insurance company to offer me a policy.
There are no "requirements" to be a surveyor.
There are qualifications that one can furnish themselves with but there are no requirements needed to become a surveyor. Anyone who feels comfortable enough to do it, can. It is an unregulated, unlicensed and unaccountable industry.
It was a seven page report with one page dedicated to a disclaimer stating that he is not responsible for what is in the report. So there is also no accountability for what he say's and that is the norm.
Seeking my money back would be a waist of time.
You just suck it up and move on.
 

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I'd have a couple of comments:

Where did you find the surveyor..?

It sounds like you were not with the surveyor as he did his inspection, I would have been on his heals the entire time pointing out things he missed so they would all be officially part of the record.

I also would have brought all the deficiencies in his final report to his attention and made him make adjustments as needed.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
We had a near identical experience last year for our insurance survey.



The 'replacement' value is what they think it would cost to build and equip that boat today.. so the $135K is not out of line on that basis. The $25K is, of course, disappointing and hurts to boot.

It would be one thing if an 'insurance' survey that took under an hour (and therefore obviously less than thorough) cost a reasonable $100-150.... but at at least 75% the cost of a 'real' survey it is, as I mentioned in the other thread, a rip-off.

I do think the insurance companies are to blame in this debacle too, though, as they don't make any differentiation between a new boat owner and people with 30 years or more experience.
When we saw the replacement cost figure I looked at my wife and said, "I'm going to drill a small hole somewhere and put the boat back in water".
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I'd have a couple of comments:

Where did you find the surveyor..?

It sounds like you were not with the surveyor as he did his inspection, I would have been on his heals the entire time pointing out things he missed so they would all be officially part of the record.

I also would have brought all the deficiencies in his final report to his attention and made him make adjustments as needed.
The surveyor was recommended by the boat yard I am on the hard in, Stone's Marina in Nanaimo. I was present for the 45 minute survey.
Why would I go back to the guy, he obviously hasn't got a clue about what he is doing.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Actually, our insurance company does differentiate between experienced boaters and inexperienced boaters.
And yes the $135,000 is a close figure to replacement cost if unable to find a similarly equipped boat of the same vintage. I'm just happy that what I have into it will be covered in the event of a complete loss.
At the end of the day I do feel I was completely ripped off.
 

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45 minutes huh? How much did he charge you? My last two surveys were as follows:

1985 Ericson 35-3: 7 hours
1997 Caliber 40LRC: 5.5 hours

These are only the times the surveyor spent with me on the boat. They both obviously spent 2-3 hours writing up the report and compiling it and all the photos onto a CD.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
45 minutes huh? How much did he charge you? My last two surveys were as follows:

1985 Ericson 35-3: 7 hours
1997 Caliber 40LRC: 5.5 hours

These are only the times the surveyor spent with me on the boat. They both obviously spent 2-3 hours writing up the report and compiling it and all the photos onto a CD.
$10 a minute. I kid you not. Sure he spent some time at home filling out the paperwork. What was given to me I could have filled out in 20 minutes or less.
 

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When I had my O-30 surveyed I was very impressed with the professionalsim, of the gentleman doing the survey. This was out of Deale MD Harrington Harbor. forgot his name. I have pages and pages of text, photos, and details. He even found things I never thought of, and I like to think I know something about boats LOL. It was necessary money well spent imho. sorry you didn't get a good one Dogs.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
sorry you didn't get a good one Dogs.
And that statement right there say's it all Denise.

Regardless of what this cost me, the omissions and errors should never happen.
I have been around boats my whole life, I started racing sailboats when I was 6 years old, I will be 52 next month.
It is only recently that this surveyor, insurance, moorage thing has been an issue.
I have kept our boat in a marina that didn't require insurance and since I have moved away from that marina I get to deal with this stupidity.
My wife and I use our boat regularly, almost every weekend we are out on the water having fun or racing with our local club.
It is in our best interest to keep our boat in top shape and we do.
The last thing I want to have happen is to see my wife struggling to survive in the ocean because of something I have neglected.
Obviously, surveyors couldn't care less about what they do as they are not willing to take responsibility for what they say in their reports and until that changes there is really no point in having a survey done.
It's a useless piece of paper.
 
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Obviously, surveyors couldn't care less about what they do as they are not willing to take responsibility for what they say in their reports and until that changes there is really no point in having a survey done.
It's a useless piece of paper.
In fairness to surveyors like Boatpoker and other conscientious surveyors everywhere I think we need to modify that statement to apply to YOUR surveyor...
 

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Discussion Starter #17
In fairness to surveyors like Boatpoker and other conscientious surveyors everywhere I think we need to modify that statement to apply to YOUR surveyor...
Yes, I agree. There are good surveyors out there and Boatpoker is one who has taken the time to seek the qualifications that make him one.
But, I challenge anyone to find a surveyor who is willing to legally stand behind what they state in these reports. Until that happens it will remain a useless piece of paper.
 

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My last survey was $350 I believe and he found something that resulted in a $600 adjustment at closing. Not really winning but I'd missed it and I would have eaten the $600 replacement cost if he hadn't.
I've used very experienced surveyors and they've done good work for me. When selling I've seen some surveys done of dubious value. I actually asked one guy to "lighten up with that hammer on the cabin top will ya ? It's only fiberglass you know"
 

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When I had my O-30 surveyed I was very impressed with the professionalsim, of the gentleman doing the survey. This was out of Deale MD Harrington Harbor. forgot his name. I have pages and pages of text, photos, and details. He even found things I never thought of, and I like to think I know something about boats LOL. It was necessary money well spent imho. sorry you didn't get a good one Dogs.
Denise-

I live very near Deale, MD.
Could you please look at your survey docs and try to find the name of your surveyor? I might like to retain him for a survey of my vessel, to upgrade to better insurance.

Thanks.
 

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.....
But, I challenge anyone to find a surveyor who is willing to legally stand behind what they state in these reports. Until that happens it will remain a useless piece of paper.
But yet a necessary one..:confused:

For the universal disclaimers of liability I blame the strongly litigious climate of the past 30 years or so.. once the courts started handing out - in some cases ridiculous - "damage" awards the rest seems inevitable.
 
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