[rji-Iowa]

I'm looking at trailer sailers. I have never used/been on a swing keel boat. Question. Is the keel either 100% up or 100% down. Or, can you put the keel down partially to reduce draft but still get some benefit.

 

[flee27]

You can sail with the keel partially down. It will change the center of effort the boats steers against though so the boat will handle differently. This can be both good and bad depending on the boats characteristics and point of sail.

Obviously it will also change the stability some if the keel is weighted.

Foster

 

[Sailormon6]

If the swing keel is heavily ballasted, such as a cast iron keel, the best practice is to leave the keel down except when launching or retrieving the boat, or to escape from a grounding. If the cable fails while a 500-1500 lb keel is retracted, the keel can tear a hole in the bottom when it drops. Swing keels of that type are generally considered safe as long as you replace the cable regularly and leave the keel down.

 

[Jamestrudel11]

You have to find the perfect balance between down and up. You can feel it by how the boat behaves.

 

[vbiz59]

I owned a Macgreggor24 years ago. kind of unique in that the keel came fully up into a cove in the hull. Great for specific uses and with a 6" draft it got a lot of looks when nosed into the beach. Was lots of fun exploring in the shallows, but most swing keels do not fully retract. The Catalina25 with swing keel still draws 2.5'+ as the keel is fully beneath the boat even when up and preforms as a shoal drafted keel. Sailed it for years without ever lowering it.
I found both to preform adequately as day sailors. They are not race boats, but the swing keel problems from a service/maintenance perspective are well known. My Macgreggor used to waggle and bang when more than half way down and hull damage is not unheard of. Cheap on the market and economical to own for the most part. The Mac was easily trailer-able,, the Catalina not so much.

 

[Sailormon6]

IMO, the balance between the center of lateral resistance (CLR) and the center of effort (CE) should be adjusted by tuning the rig and trimming the sails, not by raising or lowering the keel or centerboard. If the rig is tuned and the sails are trimmed correctly, you can achieve a very light weather helm. Thus, there's no need for an additional tool to adjust the balance.

The main function of a retractable keel or centerboard is to reduce the boat's draft. As Val points out, on some boats, a retractable keel retracts into a centerboard trunk, or raises up into the hull, and others, like the Catalina 25, simply rotate up against the hull. When the former type is raised, it reduces the boat's wetted surface, which reduces drag. Raising the latter type does not reduce wetted surface. If the keel/CB retracts into the hull or a trunk, then raising it downwind will permit higher boat speed. Raising the latter type will have no appreciable effect on boat speed.

 

[Grith]

As mentioned above I use my swing keel which fully retracts into my hull in all positions and adjust the sails accordingly for balance. Apart from the increased speed obtained by fully retracting whilst running it also allow sailing in some shallower water situations.
It should be noted however that many different trailables with swing keels have many different reactions to sailing with their keel fully or partially raised.
Most manufacturers will recommend it to be fully lowered when sailing and many trailable yachts may have stability problems with the keel fully or partially retracted. (It’s safer but not always necessary)
Each yacht is different as is each skippers ability to handle the changes that occur with a retracted keel.
Have fun out there!🙂

 

[SHNOOL]

There are those trailer sailors that also do not have swing keels, but do have retractable keels, technically retractable weighted dagger boards.

 

[Grith]

There are those trailer sailors that also do not have swing keels, but do have retractable keels, technically retractable weighted dagger boards.

I have had both and for racing those with weighted dagger boards often sail better but for cruising I love my alternative depth sounder as my retractable swing keel is known!😂

 

[seabeau]

I have ALWAYS sailed centerboarders, of all sizes and shapes. My present boat is a 18,000 displacement, ketch rigged Presto 36, designed in 1884 by Ralph Middleton Munroe and whose 400lb centerboard fully retracts in the hull. My external ballast is a lead grounding shoe approx. 9"x6"x 15' long and I have some additional internal trimming pigs molded into the bilge. My CB is seldom fully down. With the board trimmed and mizzen set, I have small need for any rudder input nor autopilot. In very gusty conditions, I find it easier to pull the board up about halfway, than constantly play the main sheet. . Subsequently, when struck by a strong gust of wind, or strong breaking wave, the boat responds by slightly sliding sideways, rather than heeling over excessively. The boat was designed at the time when boats were the main source of transportation. A pickup truck, as it were, and not a sports car.

 

[jmallett]

I have an O'Day 25 with a centerboard. It has a ballasted stub keel with the C/B hinged at the front. The C/B swings up completely into the stub keel. Note that a swing keel and a C/B are not the same thing at all. A swing keel contains the ballast. A C/B is weighted just enough to make it heavier than water so it stays down.
A fully retractable C/B, like mine, can eaasily becone fouled and jammed. Anti fouling in the slot doesn't help much as there is barely enough water flow to ablate the bittom paint. Now I leave the C/B down at the mooring as I moor on a river that has up to 3 knots of tidal flow. If you are buying a swing up C/B boat then carefully consider the potential for it to get fouled and stuck in position. Hauling or diving can be expensive.
I have hank on sails of different sizes for different conditions so I have found that adjustments to the C/B depth can be very helpful in trimming the sails. This is something that becomes obvious if you are a small dinghy sailor.
After having to deal with the multiple issues of a C/B, though I would suggest you look at a shoal or wing keel if you are simply day sailing or cruising for fun.

 

[seabeau]

I have an O'Day 25 with a centerboard. It has a ballasted stub keel with the C/B hinged at the front. The C/B swings up completely into the stub keel. Note that a swing keel and a C/B are not the same thing at all. A swing keel contains the ballast. A C/B is weighted just enough to make it heavier than water so it stays down.
A fully retractable C/B, like mine, can eaasily becone fouled and jammed. Anti fouling in the slot doesn't help much as there is barely enough water flow to ablate the bittom paint. Now I leave the C/B down at the mooring as I moor on a river that has up to 3 knots of tidal flow. If you are buying a swing up C/B boat then carefully consider the potential for it to get fouled and stuck in position. Hauling or diving can be expensive.
I have hank on sails of different sizes for different conditions so I have found that adjustments to the C/B depth can be very helpful in trimming the sails. This is something that becomes obvious if you are a small dinghy sailor.
After having to deal with the multiple issues of a C/B, though I would suggest you look at a shoal or wing keel if you are simply day sailing or cruising for fun.

My Presto has a centerboard "Freeing Hole" with plug at the aft end of the centerboard case for just such instances. That hole and a four bronze rod can free a stuck board in just a second.

 

[jmallett]

That's what I had to do in the end. The O'Day 25 does not have such a feature as the pennant line turns over a sheaf with an angle of about 60 degrees which doesn't provide a direct path. I had to make a suitable hole higher up that allows me to push the C/B with a rod (which is about 6ft long).
Took me a while before I built up enough courage to make such a hole and then to make it look professional.
So far it seems to work, but I also leave the board down throughout the season.

 

[PGandW]

I have an O'Day 25 with a centerboard. It has a ballasted stub keel with the C/B hinged at the front. The C/B swings up completely into the stub keel. Note that a swing keel and a C/B are not the same thing at all. A swing keel contains the ballast. A C/B is weighted just enough to make it heavier than water so it stays down.
A fully retractable C/B, like mine, can eaasily becone fouled and jammed. Anti fouling in the slot doesn't help much as there is barely enough water flow to ablate the bittom paint. Now I leave the C/B down at the mooring as I moor on a river that has up to 3 knots of tidal flow. If you are buying a swing up C/B boat then carefully consider the potential for it to get fouled and stuck in position. Hauling or diving can be expensive.
I have hank on sails of different sizes for different conditions so I have found that adjustments to the C/B depth can be very helpful in trimming the sails. This is something that becomes obvious if you are a small dinghy sailor.
After having to deal with the multiple issues of a C/B, though I would suggest you look at a shoal or wing keel if you are simply day sailing or cruising for fun.

The problem with the ODay 25 design is the rudder. The rudder is both too short, and too long. The rudder is about 3-4" deeper than the stub keel, which means the rudder sometimes grounds first, stressing the gudgeons and hull significantly. At the same time, when the boat heels, the fat quarters cause the stern to lift, and the rudder loses its grip on the water. The shoal draft of the stub keel and centerboard is useless when you need a deeper rudder under sail.

That said, I thoroughly enjoyed my ODay 25. I just had to be careful to sail it flat, and when poking about in shallow water.

Fred W
1989 Stuart Mariner with non-class standard Ruddercraft kick-up rudder and centerboard with very little out of the trunk
Sweet P Yeopim Creek, near N shore of Albemarle Sound, NC

 

[seabeau]

The problem with the ODay 25 design is the rudder. The rudder is both too short, and too long. The rudder is about 3-4" deeper than the stub keel, which means the rudder sometimes grounds first, stressing the gudgeons and hull significantly. At the same time, when the boat heels, the fat quarters cause the stern to lift, and the rudder loses its grip on the water. The shoal draft of the stub keel and centerboard is useless when you need a deeper rudder under sail.

That said, I thoroughly enjoyed my ODay 25. I just had to be careful to sail it flat, and when poking about in shallow water.

Fred W
1989 Stuart Mariner with non-class standard Ruddercraft kick-up rudder and centerboard with very little out of the trunk
Sweet P Yeopim Creek, near N shore of Albemarle Sound, NC

I almost bought a 1969? ODay 34, with the centerboard, just didn't like the center cockpit arrangement in such a small vessel,

 

[jmallett]

The problem with the ODay 25 design is the rudder. The rudder is both too short, and too long. The rudder is about 3-4" deeper than the stub keel, which means the rudder sometimes grounds first, stressing the gudgeons and hull significantly. At the same time, when the boat heels, the fat quarters cause the stern to lift, and the rudder loses its grip on the water. The shoal draft of the stub keel and centerboard is useless when you need a deeper rudder under sail.

That said, I thoroughly enjoyed my ODay 25. I just had to be careful to sail it flat, and when poking about in shallow water.

Fred W
1989 Stuart Mariner with non-class standard Ruddercraft kick-up rudder and centerboard with very little out of the trunk
Sweet P Yeopim Creek, near N shore of Albemarle Sound, NC

Seabeau, yes you are very perceptive, thsnk you for pointing that out. The rudder is the lowest point and will ground out when the C/B is up. That is a problem. There are other issues I have with the boat, but since I bought it for just $350 I just accept them and enjoy the boat.
Grounding of the rudder hasn't happened to me, luckily, and I sail on Nantucket Sound and southerly New England where there are a lot of shoaling areas. I have an alarm on my depth sounder and make sure I keep a close eye on it whenever there is any risk. As I said in my previous post I now keep my C/B at least partially, and mostly, down because of the fouling issue in the slot which has been my bigger concern.

 

[Arcb]

Depends on the boat. Some yes, others no. Some swing keels can be a liability in the partially up position and should really only be sailed with a locking pin in place. A keel free falling on a boat like a Cal 21 can tear the bottom out of the boat.

Centreboards should all be fine. Not all swing keels will be okay partially down.

 

[ebsail]

Seabeau, yes you are very perceptive, thsnk you for pointing that out. The rudder is the lowest point and will ground out when the C/B is up. That is a problem. There are other issues I have with the boat, but since I bought it for just $350 I just accept them and enjoy the boat.
Grounding of the rudder hasn't happened to me, luckily, and I sail on Nantucket Sound and southerly New England where there are a lot of shoaling areas. I have an alarm on my depth sounder and make sure I keep a close eye on it whenever there is any risk. As I said in my previous post I now keep my C/B at least partially, and mostly, down because of the fouling issue in the slot which has been my bigger concern.

I cleaned the Oday centerboard slot by inserting a rip saw between the board and the hull with the board down. Just carefully slide it forward and aft a few times. Done

 

[jmallett]

That certainly works and frees it up so it can be dropped as a temporary measure. The boat has to be hauled to do this, which costs me $350 eacj time., It doesn't remove the growth higher up. The CB is curved fore and aft so when it is up there is a void at the high point of the slot which can't be reached with a saw. I have a saw I use and have flattenedI the teeth so it doesn't damage the CB.
I have taken my CB out over the winter in order to clean, sand, and apply bottom paint.
I am experimenting with a wooden strip, covered in sanding paper, and attached to a battery driven jiig saw so I can reach and sand all the way up before bottom painting.