[FirstSightPS31]

When I was getting First Sight outfitted this summer, I neglected to account for the tack line for my asymmetric spinaker. I have a halyard and sheet blocks.

How have any of you run the tack line back to the cockpit on the 31?

 

[JohnRPollard]

Rod,

We currently use a fixed tack line that simply attaches to the stem head fitting just forward of where the headstay attaches. It works well enough. But I will be interested to hear how others have rigged a running tack line, since that is a much better approach.

Until we hear from others, I'll mention how I currently plan to do it (when and if).

Essentially, I'd run it much like a roller furler control line, from the bow pulpit back to the cockpit via Harken Outboard Stanchion Lead Block Assemblies. There would be a fixed block shackled to the stem head fitting just forward of the headstay attachment point, and I'd terminate the control line by the cockpit with a block and cam cleat, positioned in a location such that we could get a wrap on a winch if necessary.

All in theory, of course. I have not tested the geometry yet.

 

[FirstSightPS31]

Tack Line

I spoke to Steve Madden of Madden Mast and Rigging in Annapolis about this issue. He and I went over the boat carefully before delivery and made sure all of the rigging was to my liking.

The one thing we neglected was the tack line.

He suggested using the rope gypsy on my windlass, but unfortunately I have only a combo chain/rope gyspsy, so I can't wrap the tack line around it.

Another option would be to run the tack line straight back to a winch on the mast, but I don't have a mast winch, and the windlass would obstruct the run.

As a third option, he suggested what you have outlined. I have a slotted toe rail, so attachment of the blocks would be easy, but a lot of clutter.

I think I am just going to run a short line back to one of the cleats on the foredeck. I won't be able to pull down the tack without putting the AS back in the sock, but oh well.

Rod Johnson

 

[JohnRPollard]

Rod,

If you are not going to run the line back to the cockpit, why not just go with a short strop and attach it via shackle at the stemhead as we do? While not ideal, it works fine:

Here is another angle. In this photo you can also see that the Harken OSLBA's attach very cleanly to the stanchion, so fortunately it won't matter whether your boat has an extruded aluminum or teak cap rail.:

 

[sailortjk1]

It should be run back to the cockpit some how; first for safety reasons and second for ease of trim. I suddenly became aware of this myself just a couple of weeks ago when I purchased an A-symmetrical. I don't have the same boat, but the thinking is the same.
I attached a swivel / block to my anchor roller as far forward as possible.
Than simply ran that back to the cockpit via the organizer and than through the clutch. I have one winch on the cabin top that I use.
It is my understanding that in a near broach or in a possible broach scenario, that you want to be able to release the tack; that the tack is the first thing that gets blown. I have not experienced anything like that, I am just telling you what I have been told. If it's on the foredeck or if it's fixed you are not going to have this option.
I also play with the adjustment of ours. Bring it down and tight for close/beam reaching (we have a gennaker and I am surprised at how angles we can actually fill the sail) and we let it out and up when the wind angles get flatter.
I think you will want to be able to control it and adjust it back at the cockpit. I just run it along the deck from the bow back with a simple swivel attached to the anchor roller.

 

[sailortjk1]

Some photo's,
hope you can see the tack line...
1) eased out fuller luff

2) a little tighter playing with sail shape

In this shot you can see the clutches and winch.

Although not a PS, I think the concept is the same.

 

[FirstSightPS31]

Thanks to both of you for the suggestions.

tjk1: your lovely family is blocking a good view of the attachment point in the bow for your block.

I think for now I have no option but to run a short strop back to a cleat. I should be able to go forward and release the line from the cleat, although not quickly. There will of course be no way to shorten the tack line under load.

 

[JohnRPollard]

Thanks to both of you for the suggestions.

tjk1: your lovely family is blocking a good view of the attachment point in the bow for your block.

I think for now I have no option but to run a short strop back to a cleat. I should be able to go forward and release the line from the cleat, although not quickly. There will of course be no way to shorten the tack line under load.

Tim (tjk) is absolutely right, it's much better to rig a running tack line, adjustable from the cockpit.

But even with a fixed tack line, you can make adjustments to the luff tension by taking or easing on the spin halyard. It's not the preferred way, but it works alright.

I also wouldn't be too worried about the need to blow the tack line to prevent a broach. From my Melges 24 racing days, I know very well about this phenomena -- we laid that boat right over on its beam ends more than a few times. But there are several other things you'd want to do first to correct before a full blown broach ensued that necessitated releasing the tack line (drive down, ease main sheet, ease spin sheet, ease vang).

I'm not too worried about the broach situation because we typically only use the chute for sailing downwind in light-to-moderate air. Once true wind gets above 17 knots or so, that chute will be down -- long before broaching forces are coming into play. Compare that to racers, who will be putting those chutes up in all conditions even 30+ knots and will need to play that tack line.

No question, I'd prefer a running tack line. I only mention these other options as a "good enough" approach until you can get the better solution implemented.

 

[FirstSightPS31]

John:

I am already running the roller furler line aft on the port side using the Harken system you show.

I can do the same thing on starboard for the tack line.

The line would need to be adjusted by the same cockpit winches that would be used for the sheets. If the adjustment is being made on the lazy sheet side, it is no problem, but on the opposite tack I would have no winch.

So I would be tempted somehow to run it to a cabin top winch.

 

[JohnRPollard]

John:

I am already running the roller furler line aft on the port side using the Harken system you show.

I can do the same thing on starboard for the tack line.

The line would need to be adjusted by the same cockpit winches that would be used for the sheets. If the adjustment is being made on the lazy sheet side, it is no problem, but on the opposite tack I would have no winch.

So I would be tempted somehow to run it to a cabin top winch.

Unless you plan to press that sail in the higher wind ranges, I think you'd find that you very rarely need a winch to adjust the tack line. Usually a block with cam cleat is sufficient up to moderate breeze conditions. Beyond that, you can also bring the line up to the secondary coachroof winches if the primaries are busy with the spin sheet (although, we usually lead the spin sheets to the coachroof winches.)

Another option would be to add some additional purchase/mechanical advantage before the tack line gets to the block with cam cleat. You could do this by adding another block at the bow or back near the stern rail area.

Except for fouling the nice clear foredeck with a tripping hazard, I like the idea of bringing it over the coachroof to the secondary winches. That way someone can sit in "the pit" and tweak the adjustment lines.

 

[FirstSightPS31]

Boy, you hit the nail on the head......"nice clean foredeck" is right. I really hate to mess with that!

 

[FirstSightPS31]

Tack line

John:

How is your strop attached to the boat?

I was out on the boat this weekend, looking for a place to attach a block to the bowsprit for the tack line, but I couldn't really find anything. My last boat had some holes drilled in the in the anchor roller which were forward of the forestay, but on the PS31, the forestay is absolutely the most forward attachment spot.

I was thinking of using perhaps an 18 inch piece of spectra line with an eye on each end, which could be looped around the bowsprit under the forestay; the two eyes could then be joined with a shackle, to which my block could be attached.

The purpose of the line is to allow the block to be pulled out away from the roller furling drum.

Any thoughts?

Rod Johnson

 

[JohnRPollard]

Rod,

Our stemhead fitting has two (maybe 3?) attachment holes in it. Our headstay is attached to the forward most hole.

Our strop is made of flat webbing (about 1 1/2"). At one end it is fixed to the tack of the sail, the other end terminates with a "D" shaped shackle. We attach the shackle to the hole in the stemhead just aft of the headstay fitting.

The tackline/strop gets pulled forward by the sail, and sort of loops/angles under the roller furling drum. It would be better if the headstay were fixed to the second hole back in the stemhead -- then the tack line could attach to the further forward hole. But, we really do not have any problems/issues with fouling or chafe.

I like your idea of the short section of line combined with the shackle. I think it would work pretty well -- just observe for chafe. It might even be possible to get a really long "D" shackle that could span the headstay fitting and fix to the second hole back in the stemhead (hopefully you have more than one hole?)

I sometimes fantasize about designing a true running sprit that could be run out on the anchor roller....

 

[FirstSightPS31]

Thanks.....that is helpful. Yes I have holes behind the headstay attachment, but I wanted to avoid chafe when sailing on the opposite tack. Perhaps this is a little too obsessive/compulsive for the little use the sail would get.

 

[jdk1948]

I use the downhaul for my spinaker pole (which is already led back via organiser and rope clutch to coachroof winch) led under the bow roller. I have never had to let it go in a hurry but it is easy and useful to tweak the set of the sail from the cockpit.
John
Westerly Tempest

 

[Lansdowne]

Where did you all buy your spin's, and what size's.
Full size, 80% cruiser, etc,
Thanks, Larry

 

[zz4gta]

Always get a full size spin. You can always take it down.

Many people also use the primary winches to adjust sheets, or add blocks to use the cabin top winches.

You can also have a heavy tack block on the bow with a becket, then use a lightweight block sewn or lashed to the tack of the chute. Attach the end of the line to the becket on the bow block, then go through the tack block, back under the 'bow' block and lead aft. It's now 2:1 and in the light stuff, no issues adjusting.

However, if you do use the chute in higher winds, 15+, you probably won't be able to adjust the line anyway. You will need a winch. Tack lines are heavily loaded lines, in my experience, one of the heaviest on the boat.

 

[JohnRPollard]

Larry,

Ours came with the boat, from a previous owner. I believe it is by Hathaway Reiser and Raymond, but not positive on that. It is well made, in excellent condition, but is probably 15+ years old (has not been flown a tremendous amount).

Ours seems to be "full sized". I often wish it were a bit smaller. Back in the early days of asyms, there was a tendency to "max out" the dimensions of these sails. In my experience, they can get a bit cumbersome when they are huge like that. Ours is manageable, but if it were 90% of the size all the better. A fairly high clew is also helpful, as one big complaint with these sails is obscured forward visibility.

Ideally you'd have two of these, a larger one made from .6 oz or .75 oz material, and a smaller one from 1.5 oz material for heavier air and/or tighter reaching. Most of us don't have the space or budget for both. So usually we compromise with a .6 or .75 oz chute designed and sized more for light air.

 

[teejayevans]

Larry,

Ideally you'd have two of these, a larger one made from .6 oz or .75 oz material, and a smaller one from 1.5 oz material for heavier air and/or tighter reaching. Most of us don't have the space or budget for both. So usually we compromise with a .6 or .75 oz chute designed and sized more for light air.

How much space do one of these take up when folded up nicely?

Tom

 

[JohnRPollard]

How much space do one of these take up when folded up nicely?

Tom

Generally you won't fold up a spinnaker. Usually it gets stuffed in a bag, almost like a sleeping bag stuff-sack (but much larger).

Ours is in a snuffer "sock", which makes it a bit bulkier. Still, it fits in the starboard cockpit locker, along with our batteries, holding tank, three or four fenders, docklines, etc. So, in my opinion, they are not too hard to store and are worth the space.