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Discussion Starter #1
don't want to come across as too much of a winging pom

but here we go

last film on this page along with the report from the engineer who I really like and trust - he has given me what I hope is the worst case scenario

2011 Video Logs « Keep Turning Left

always keen to hear what people have to say

one thing that was suggested was that I do a good job of filming the operation and then making it available as a DVD or a download for those who are fascinated by the whole idea of removing 130kg engines from small boats

incidentally the engine manual is here

Picture Galleries « Keep Turning Left
 

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Dylan,
Engine Rand R is not rocket surgery. The only truly "specialist" aspect of the job is fabbing/installing new mounts. It sounds a much more daunting prospect than it actually is, once one gets dug in, and reinstallation usually takes 75% or less of the time it took to remove the engine.
If I was in your shoes, and facing a 4 figure bill, I'd tackle the gruntwork myself.
After all, what have you go to lose?


The way I see this saga, you have a number of options:

1. Bite the bullet and let the engineer have at it.
Advantage: you don't get dirty, it gets done right.
Disadvantage: Cost
Result: It's done.
Cost: A grand + her majesty.

2. Do it yourself.
Advantage: You save money, and know your boat better, and gain some marketable footage.
Disadvantage: You get dirty and occasionally frustrated.
Cost: Parts and chainfall rental. Call it 300 quid.
Result: It's done, possibly faster than hiring it out, definitely cheaper, you gain some personal satisfaction and maybe a good story or two to tell.

3. Repower with newer more compatible engine
Advantage: Arguably cheaper spares and fewer needed, arguably easier to obtain
Disadvantage: Cost, although some of the cost could be offset by selling the current Volvo MD
Cost: At least a couple grand
Result: Fewer hassles and worries going forward, lighter wallet, possibly significant time out of the water.

4. Slap an outboard on the transom
Advantage: Lower cost, arguably quicker install. Easier and chepaer to maintain going forward.
Disadvantage: No more soothing chug chug, mount will have to be fabricated
Result: You're on the water quickly with minimal cost.
Cost: ?

5. Pull the MD, sell MD, install outboard.
Advantage: gain storage space in former engine bay, offset cost of outboard by flogging inboard lump.
Disadvantage: More labour.
Result: You're on the water with a little less money out of pocket.
Cost: ?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
all things considered

Dylan,
Engine Rand R is not rocket surgery. The only truly "specialist" aspect of the job is fabbing/installing new mounts. It sounds a much more daunting prospect than it actually is, once one gets dug in, and reinstallation usually takes 75% or less of the time it took to remove the engine.
If I was in your shoes, and facing a 4 figure bill, I'd tackle the gruntwork myself.
After all, what have you go to lose?


The way I see this saga, you have a number of options:

1. Bite the bullet and let the engineer have at it.
Advantage: you don't get dirty, it gets done right.
Disadvantage: Cost
Result: It's done.
Cost: A grand + her majesty.

2. Do it yourself.
Advantage: You save money, and know your boat better, and gain some marketable footage.
Disadvantage: You get dirty and occasionally frustrated.
Cost: Parts and chainfall rental. Call it 300 quid.
Result: It's done, possibly faster than hiring it out, definitely cheaper, you gain some personal satisfaction and maybe a good story or two to tell.

3. Repower with newer more compatible engine
Advantage: Arguably cheaper spares and fewer needed, arguably easier to obtain
Disadvantage: Cost, although some of the cost could be offset by selling the current Volvo MD
Cost: At least a couple grand
Result: Fewer hassles and worries going forward, lighter wallet, possibly significant time out of the water.

4. Slap an outboard on the transom
Advantage: Lower cost, arguably quicker install. Easier and chepaer to maintain going forward.
Disadvantage: No more soothing chug chug, mount will have to be fabricated
Result: You're on the water quickly with minimal cost.
Cost: ?

5. Pull the MD, sell MD, install outboard.
Advantage: gain storage space in former engine bay, offset cost of outboard by flogging inboard lump.
Disadvantage: More labour.
Result: You're on the water with a little less money out of pocket.
Cost: ?
you are correct in your assessment

although fixing myself - my hands drop things now

my tool kit - which was once excellent has been raided over the years by teenagers

my own temper.

I could film Robin doing the grunting - so I could still make a film

sell it as a DVD - it should be a real winner

I think the outboard option is probably not an option given what I face by way of sea conditions as the journey continues

I think my options are

to pay now to have it done

or

pull the slug from the water - park it up and save up so that I can pay later



I guess I felt that I had solved the engine probs

what I really, really hate is the idea that within a month of going back into service the beast could find another way of getting me where it hurts

so many aspects to think about

D
 

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Two questions;
What's a winging pom?
How much is a quid?
One advice; never put an outboard on a sailboat. Go engineless if necessary.
John
 

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Confession

I confess Dylan, although I have enjoyed your videos in the past, I haven't made the commitment of joining. I spend too much mindless time browsing the web which could be better served by viewing your videos. It would only be fair to pay you for my enjoyment. It is indeed a small price you ask, for the enjoyment of watching you and the Slug explore the waterways of your beautiful country.

I would also suggest that many of us would probably enjoy giving you a bit of a hand on your current repair. If you make a video as you suggested, I would enjoy purchasing a copy. Perhaps you could put it on your website and allow us to make a donation to receive a copy. Sailors tend to be a cheap lot, but don't discount the possibility that many of us would joy giving you a hand. It's no different than giving you a tow if needed or offering you a place to bed down, while on your sailing journeys.
 

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If not for the possible DVD I'd be suggesting you hire professional and then act as offsider. While not involving major sugery I did that earlier this year and damned if I didn't learn more about marine diesels in a couple of hours than I'd taken in over the past thirty years. Then again I am mechanically incompetent.

Watched video. Nice pics of birds and dog too.

What would second hand smaller donk cost ? From other thread we know outboard is not a goer so lets forget that. Current model MD is supposedly over size for the Slug so maybe you could buy/sell for about the same dosh? If engine in similar condition maybe you get more for yours than new would cost ? Wishful thinking probably. Smaller donk would use standard engine mounts though I guess labour cost about the same.

So not exactly solving the cost problems.
 

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Plus-one for what Capt. Wombat suggests.... You have fine engine that's oversized with corroded mounts.... sell the lovely oversized engine and install a smaller used beastie....

One more thing.... Could you possibly be over-thinking this problem? They're just motor mounts. Can't you find a fabricator to come up with something that will hold 400 pounds in place? I realize you have special space considerations, but a friend of mine replaced his mounts in a few hours, one-at-a-time by using a scissor jack. I have a feeling you've already thought this through, so I'll stop now before I make any more silly suggestions....
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks - all input is welcome

the feedback from the web has been great

one way or another I aim to keep the slug and retain the beast

its in good nick and it has got me this far

I have also been contacted by a bloke who has done the job - one engine mounting at a time without pulling the volvo - which is obviously a major cost

he said it was a right sod - but he did it

I have also been contacted by another bloke who watches the films I have been making who has offered to spend a three day weekend with me.

he has all the tools and can weld - so....

one way or another it looks as though I shall have a shot at it

Aaaagh!

lost a massive chunk of last summer because of the back end of the drive shaft... I really hope I don't miss the best sailing months of this year too

but once the mounts have been done then what else is there to bust....

well loads of course - it is a 45 year old boat after-all



Dylan








Plus-one for what Capt. Wombat suggests.... You have fine engine that's oversized with corroded mounts.... sell the lovely oversized engine and install a smaller used beastie....

One more thing.... Could you possibly be over-thinking this problem? They're just motor mounts. Can't you find a fabricator to come up with something that will hold 400 pounds in place? I realize you have special space considerations, but a friend of mine replaced his mounts in a few hours, one-at-a-time by using a scissor jack. I have a feeling you've already thought this through, so I'll stop now before I make any more silly suggestions....
 

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Future videos

"but once the mounts have been done then what else is there to bust...."

Just think of any future problems as being good subject matter for future videos :)


the feedback from the web has been great

one way or another I aim to keep the slug and retain the beast

its in good nick and it has got me this far

I have also been contacted by a bloke who has done the job - one engine mounting at a time without pulling the volvo - which is obviously a major cost

he said it was a right sod - but he did it

I have also been contacted by another bloke who watches the films I have been making who has offered to spend a three day weekend with me.

he has all the tools and can weld - so....

one way or another it looks as though I shall have a shot at it

Aaaagh!

lost a massive chunk of last summer because of the back end of the drive shaft... I really hope I don't miss the best sailing months of this year too

but once the mounts have been done then what else is there to bust....

well loads of course - it is a 45 year old boat after-all



Dylan
 

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Dylan,
Your engineer mate was concerned about elbow room in the Slugs engine room. I'd have thought that if he thought there was space available he'd have already suggested one mount at a time.
To boot, if the front mounts are non standard and out of production you may face an even bigger reason for one at a time to be impractical.
I'm glad you are sticking with Ms Slug. She just seems to be the right boat for the purpose, or at least for this leg of the journey. Will shoal draft be so important the further north you get ?
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
shoal draft

Dylan,
Your engineer mate was concerned about elbow room in the Slugs engine room. I'd have thought that if he thought there was space available he'd have already suggested one mount at a time.
To boot, if the front mounts are non standard and out of production you may face an even bigger reason for one at a time to be impractical.
I'm glad you are sticking with Ms Slug. She just seems to be the right boat for the purpose, or at least for this leg of the journey. Will shoal draft be so important the further north you get ?
as I get north the place gets rockier - but the harbours get smaller

lots of small drying harbours to call in at

if you have a deep keel then you are forced to do longer passages from deep harbour to deep harbour to find a place that can accommodate you

so the shallow draft and ability to take the ground will continue to be important.

I do want to keep the engine if I can

I am a bit torn about the repairs

I assume the mechanic knows what he is saying about the engine mounts and the need to remove the engine

But....

then one of the ktl sailors says that he has done the job without removing the engine - and that the md1 is what was fitted in the first place

so....

its my guess that I shall end up trying to avoid spending the £1000 or more on a professional and end up with a bit of a bodge

but that has been the story of the journey so far anyway

Dylan

and her eis the dullest web page in history

its the shots of the engine mounts in a mirror offshore

The engine mounts « Keep Turning Left

there are much better pages on the website

here is one of the biggest cloud I have ever seen

Scuttlebutt 38 thats is one big cloud « Keep Turning Left

apparently this type of cloud has a name
 

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hmmm.... tight squeeze.

Hey, if the engine mounts are no longer being made how do you get around that little problem ?

and

if engineer mate is good and trustworthy why not ask him for advice given your problem budget wise.
 

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Dylan,
Those mounts look like nothing but lag screws sunk into the stringers.... I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you have someone else, someone who understands what it means to be a budget-wise sailor, to take a look at this problem of yours. Maybe I'm missing something, but you can't miss out on any part of the sailing season for that.... And it can't cost 1,000 pounds plus tax....
 

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Dylan,
Those mounts look like nothing but lag screws sunk into the stringers.... I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you have someone else, someone who understands what it means to be a budget-wise sailor, to take a look at this problem of yours. Maybe I'm missing something, but you can't miss out on any part of the sailing season for that.... And it can't cost 1,000 pounds plus tax....
yeah verily ...
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
progress

the price was based on pulling the engine - one days work

and also replacing it - which is another days work

then fabricating the mounts

However, one of the blokes who has been watching the films has done two engine jobs before and builds motorcycle side cars for a living - has offered to come and spend a couple of days with me

one of the other website people has managed to do the job without pulling the engine and has sent me some pretty detailed instructions

it was a bit of a tough one - but possible

so on sunday/monday I am going to start the assault on the beast and see if I can make some progress.

There have been some great suggestions about getting around the problem

a large number of them do seem to involve cutting large holes in the cockpit floor.

One way or another I aim to fight for the beast

some people really like the sound of it though

one bloke emailed me asking me to keep it because the sound reminds him of his dads boat - for him the MD1 is the sound of his youth - he could remember the smell of his dads rollups and the bacon sandwhiches - kicked off all sorts of memories

another now has the sound from this film


Scuttlebutt 54 starting the beast – MD1 fires up « Keep Turning Left

as his ring tone

actually it is pretty distinctive

another chap has it as the windows start up noise

there are some crazy dudes out there - but fellow sailors all the same

Dylan
 

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Dylan, That's some incredible videography. Keep up the good work, captain. It's really special. You remind me of a younger David Attenborough.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
you are a very nice man

Dylan, That's some incredible videography. Keep up the good work, captain. It's really special. You remind me of a younger David Attenborough.
but the link is just to a film about starting a volvo

I know it is one of my finest....

although.... this is sailing in the Uk in february when you guys are complaining about the heat

Scuttlebutt 66 winter sailing « Keep Turning Left


as for the Saintly David comparison, thanks again. He does have a reputation for being a very nice man. Until two years ago and the last round of BBC cuts I was one of the reporters at the BBC Natural History Unit - but on the radio.... too ugly for TV. But the wildlife has been one of the main pleasures of the journey so far.

Dylan
 

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but the link is just to a film about starting a volvo

I know it is one of my finest....

although.... this is sailing in the Uk in february when you guys are complaining about the heat

Scuttlebutt 66 winter sailing « Keep Turning Left


as for the Saintly David comparison, thanks again. He does have a reputation for being a very nice man. Until two years ago and the last round of BBC cuts I was one of the reporters at the BBC Natural History Unit - but on the radio.... too ugly for TV. But the wildlife has been one of the main pleasures of the journey so far.

Dylan
Dw, not denying you are too ugly for TV :p but Saintly David is no picture postcard himself. For mine, I reckon its a shame that these days TV presenters all look like they've come out a modelling school.
 
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