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Discussion Starter #22
It is people like me with their 23 to 30 foot boats who are looked down upon as if to say "that is all you could afford?"
Don't ever feel inferior about what you sail.
your boat is not "all you could afford". it is simply all that you need.
 

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... It is people like me with their 23 to 30 foot boats who are looked down upon as if to say "that is all you could afford?"
That's sad.

I kept my 22 footer in our marina. There are other <30 foot boats in our marina. Everyone regardless of boat size gets along, keeps in touch if you don't show up too many weekends in a row, worries about each other, helps each other. If I was looked down upon, I was oblivious to it. Too many marinas around to pay to be with that type of crowd.
 

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Daniel - Norsea 27
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My boat may not be the bottom of the bottom or cheapest of the cheap but the bottom is more of where I feel comfortable. From what I've seen, the crowds are a heck of a lot more interesting and so are the stories. I love my boat. I enjoy seeing anyone else crawling around their own.

I have a lot to learn, I admit it. That's part of why I love having an older boat. There is always something to learn from all the maintenance. Being over 30 year's old, it's not the fastest, but I didn't get it for racing.

I wouldn't want most of the newer boats. To me they are starting to all look the same.

My boat may not be among the biggest but it gets me to the water. It's a great size to learn on and to grow on as my skills grow.

I love this sailing.
 

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When I was a youngster here at the Jersey Shore.. 30 feet of boat seemed huge and was about as big as most people went. Some had 33, some had 35, but most were around 30.. this was mostly powerboats. Sailboats were usually in the high 20s.

It is people like me with their 23 to 30 foot boats who are looked down upon as if to say "that is all you could afford?"
In general, I agree with BJ's original post, although I have always opted for new. Generally, one has a certain amount of money to allocate to this hobby, so if you go new, it's smaller and has fewer bells and whistles...no, probably none. BJ mentioned why I go new, I like shiney new, even if it is small, and I am a believer that I'll have fewer problems that way. To me, it's a pay me now or pay me later situation. From the first day that I saw a sailboat, I was always wanting to eventually own one of those large 33 footers. I've almost gotten there after many years (74 years old). It's a 32 Catalina. But I agree with the thing about being looked down on. My first boat was a new McGregor Venture 24, and almost everyone beats up that brand, but you know, it did just fine for me, sold it at a profit. Then, came a new Kells 28, another off -brand. It did fine for 22 years. And I remember a comment from a owner of a Cape Dory 36. I don't remember the topic, it was just small talk, when he came across with a comment "boats like yours". Owners of Catalina, Beneteau, and Hunter all get the same treatment from time to time. Doesn't make any difference about size, it can be 23 ft. or 40 ft., new or old. All of these boats work just fine, new or second hand, smaller or larger. But when one gets the "is that all you could afford?" treatment, it tarnishes the dream considerably. And that treatment is not limited to boating, it's everywhere.
All one can do is to try to ignore it and push on.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Thanks for chiming in NCC.
And thank you for providing a "why buy new" point of view.

As I said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with buying a new boat at all. This isn't an "Us vs. Them", "I'm right and the rest of you wrong" sort of thing. I simply started exploring why I buy the boats I buy. It's interesting and kinda gratifying to see how many feel the same way.

There is no wrong path to purchasing a boat and getting out sailing. The only wrong path is the one that leads away from getting on the water. Life is too short not to sail, and life is way, way too short to worry about those who look down on what you're sailing. We all share the same sunsets.
 

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Noah's Bosun
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your boat is not "all you could afford". it is simply all that you need
Well said sir....

A little expansion on my earlier "throw-away" post...

I have never owned a "new" boat... New to me, yeah but not "new". Hell, I have only owned one "new" car. A brand new 1973 Datsun pickup which cost me $1900.00 out the door and we sold that when my wife and I moved back to the western Pacific and bought a 27 foot sailboat. Lived on and sailed that sucker until we lost her in Typhoon Pamela in '76.

Swallowed the anchor and moved back to the states. Wife died young, so took two kids (5 and 7 years old) bought a Bill Tripp designed center cockpit 40 and sailed her full time all over the western Pacific and central America till the kids got old enough to mutiny and abandoned ship. (They both live inland... go figure)

After 10 more years or so of single handing, swallowed the anchor again. Boat's to big.. Older I get, harder to single hand her, too big a hole in the water to throw money into.
Mistake...

2 years ashore.. need to knock peoples hats off in the street for no reason. Buddy owns marina, has nice little 25 sound but neglected. Take her off my hands he says. Ok I says what more do I need? Small hole in the water.... Less cost for everything. Some new gear to take advantage of technology. Eg all LED lights means those cheapo golf cart bats work fine for the house bank. Used Suzi kicker (bic outboard) and who wants to steal it. Used bronze turnbuckles to replace the POS stainless barrels. Used Orego stove.
Used Garmin GPS (no chart plotter, run OpenCpn on Navigatrix laptop for passage planning) Used tiller pilot (mostly sheet to tiller steering off shore) Used ground tackle...
Use it up, wear it out, make it do.... Not the prettiest girl at the dance, but she sleeps and sails well. As I don't have to have a full time gig to pay off the national debt, I actually spend my time going new places, and seeing new faces.

You have to be of a certain age to recognize the next reference. One of my favorite signs I ever saw was on the fence of a nice small homestead. It was called "Oleo Acres - The Cheaper Spread"
 

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i am brand new to sailing, i have only been on a sail boat once and only for a few hours, that being said i am definitely a bottom feeder . i do the same thing with cars, i do not want a new car, they are built with cheaper parts, and the stuff that's good costs so much to replace i don't want it, 300 bucks for a anti lock brake sensor, i miss when cars were just a battery, carb, transmission,and wheels anyone could fix them, and cheap too, i feel like the more wires, and electronics on a boat there is the more hassle it will be (especially since for some reason the inside of boats are very not water tight, you take on some water and suddenly everything stops working)

having spent the last few months looking at pictures of boats just to see what i seemed to like, i started noticing i would just skip over newer boats, not because of the price, but because i just dislike how they look. i really like older boat style , you can at least tell them apart anyways. when i go to buy a boat (sometime in the next few months) it will be an older boat with character and some neat stories hopefully . it will only be 5 or 6 thousand dollars ..because i like it down here, I've always like used items even when i had the money to buy nw, i would pick a used car, or bike or tool, i am not really sure why, it wasn't the money. i guess i was just born a bottom feeder
 

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Some people I have talked to who insist on purchasing new, be it cars, or whatever, tend to be technophobes who have a kind of superstition that if they buy new then they can avoid the inevitable problems that boats, cars, and other technological devices eventually have. I've seen this behavior in all walks of life, from people who won't drive an older car for fear it will break down to a story on television about a guitar player for a rock band who kept asking the manufacturer he was working with to send him new guitars because he didn't know how to properly tune the ones they had already sent him. It may be controversial, but I think these are basically lazy people, mentally, who can't be bothered with figuring out the details of complicated systems. I think it's kind of sad because technophobes become so deflated when something eventually goes wrong with their new device, and some go to extremes and even sell out and purchase new again whenever the least thing goes wrong in the hope that this time it will be different. It's very wasteful in a number of ways; obviously it costs a lot of money, but as an outsider it also looks very stressful, sometimes these people seem like they're walking around in a kind of restless dream that they know could end at any moment. I've never understood this extreme reluctance to get past all of the superstition and learn the most basic information about systems, but some people simply won't do it no matter what it costs them.

I would also like to add that I agree with Bljones on this, there's nothing wrong with buying new, my comment isn't about everybody who buys a new boat, and I'm not trying to start an "us vs. them" argument either.
 

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There is a saying that is certainly true: "The bigger the boat the less it is used". It is true because a bigger boat requires more maintenance hence less sailing time. Further, one has to make more money to afford to own it meaning less sailing.
New boats rarely go on extended cruises simple because the owner is busy earning money to pay for them whereas older are already paid for.
New boats can be as big a maintenance headache as an older boat. Just read the warranty stories about new boats, and these are boats people pay full price for. By the time these boats are used, the major headaches are solved.
New boats require more maintenance to keep up their value hence less sailing time whereas an older boat is already depreciated so maintenance for the purpose of "looks" can be allowed to slide.
 

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I do not regard myself as a bottom feeder. Rather I see myself as an Extreme Bargain Hunter. :D

The only things I must have new are food and underwear.
 

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New boats can be as big a maintenance headache as an older boat. Just read the warranty stories about new boats, and these are boats people pay full price for. By the time these boats are used, the major headaches are solved.
New boats require more maintenance to keep up their value hence less sailing time whereas an older boat is already depreciated so maintenance for the purpose of "looks" can be allowed to slide.
Your assumption that bigger boats don't get used because of more down time for maintenance because they are big, and because people are working to pay for the boat may not be correct. A bigger boat does have more systems that require attention (new or older), but almost all boats spend lots (most) of their time moored or tied to a pier, so time is available for repairs. Also, the owner of a big, newer boat is more likely to simply call the marina and get them to do the work at any time. As to not using the boat because they are working to pay for them, that too might not be correct. With the bigger, newer boats, a good many of those people are well off. In addition to being busy with work, they often have other toys: time at the beach cottage, travel to Europe, time at the mountain home, travel to Las Vegas, not sailing because of going fishing on their other boat, etc.

As to the warranty horror stories, I submit that these are confined to a relatively small portion of the new boat market and most new owners don't encounter them.

But, I believe the biggest reason (other than available money for a boat) wherein one decides to go new or used (lightly or heavily used) is one's take on the statement "By the time these boats are used, the major headaches are solved". A person who is convinced that statement is correct will likely buy a used boat. But if one believes that the real problems arrive after the boat has lots of age and use, that person is going to go for the new or newer boat.
 

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Sea Sprite 23 #110 (20)
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one thing about the difference between used and new.. I have a -much- harder time changing things on something new.. and I enjoy tinkering. A used boat allows me to change things as I want with no guilt
 

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I've met some dam good people sailing my bottom feeding Mac, and cemented some life long friendships aboard her. :D
Is the boat stylish, pedigreed, or blue water certified? Ahh....Nope.
Does she do what I want her to do, and spend very little in the process? Ahh...Yep!!
Enjoy the sailing, friendships, locations, and sunsets. Discard the petty things. Life is too short.

Rich
 

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Me and the Admiral sail a 39 year old classic plastic, it's paid in full, and that's a big deal for us. Sure we have spent some dollars doing the this and that things that all boats require. Being that the "Pegu Club" is not new, my newbie skill set does not show so much :) Four weeks and we are back in the water.
 

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(snip) 300 bucks for a anti lock brake sensor, (snip)
Why would replace that? Id just unplug the power to the ABS pump. Me never like antilock brakes. In fact most things electronic in vehicles and engines or generators just make it more prone to failure and not to be able to be fixed out in the middle of the water. Give me mechanical back. Atleast I can fix it easier and cheeper.

As far a a bottom feeder I as well enjoy the simpler things. Its less of a fall and a lot less to worry about.

A nice new boat someone is going to scratch something or even worse you are a target for theft. Ive ran across more humbler people down here then whom I have had not the pleasure to meet of those above me. So humble that they would give the shirt off of their back to anyone. I used to pursue the mom and pop truck stops, diners, and stores while I was driving. The atmosphere made me feel at home even if I was a stranger there. Seeing how the whole restaurant interacted with everyone was warming. The food was a whole heck of a lot better and real portions to! Never like corporate chains

Its at the moment of crisis and when you really need a hand and feel so lost as to ask you see how the top feeders just turn a head. Leaving you behind.

I keep my cars till they fall apart and do most of my own work. With my boats Ill be sure to be sound and safe but it will be no 400k vessel. to me its priceless because it is mine... There are many like it but this one is mine.

Kudos BJ
 

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The lucky thing about people buying new boats is they absorb the depreciation so that we can buy used boats. And they also create the pool of boats that are available to those of us not so cash-flush. But a few observations . . .

My boat is not a 22ft because I intend to do some serious voyaging so it is 44ft. But it is a 1989 model and I am slowly making it into what I want it to be. The fact is that my budget would never have stretched to a suitable passage-maker if it were new. In fact if I didn’t have the ability to do 95% of my own work, this boat would be financially out of my reach.

We need pictures of these "depreciated" gems. I can't remember how to post pictures or I'd have done so.
So this is the boat:



Also trying to keep the boat in an as-new state is not on my agenda. It will be made safe and livable and when we are done cruising it will be sold as-is to the next person who wants to sort it for their level of cruising. If it de-values during that process, that’s the cost of cruising, I don’t care.

I sometimes refer on this forum to a friend who bought a new 40 footer and whilst there is something to be said about having something new, the boat has not been without its problems even as new and several things have had to be repaired. It’s all good and well saying the boat is under guarantee but when life is in the balance and things begin to break, warranty is worth nothing.

One thing is for sure, if I had the opportunity for a straight swap my boat with his I would decline. I know exactly what I have and what she is capable of and when the chips are down out there, that is worth way more than money.

So if that means I’m a bottom-feeder, yep, I put my hand up.
 

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1959 Ackerman Newporter
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My favorite reasons for buying an older boat: I have two sailboats that I conveniently and easily was able to pay cash for. While the second, much larger one was a heftier amount of cash, it was only a decent downpayment on a much more recent vintage vessel of comparable appointment and capability. That means that when I was laid off from my job a couple years ago, I didn't worry about the boat payments - I went sailing. And if that ever happens again, that's exactly what I'll do then as well.

I'm not even a failure by 18-year-old me's standards. I'm a rockstar by that guy's standards (he didn't have any idea what he wanted anyway). With a cool career that I love, a young girlfriend, and a couple awesome boats, he should envy the guy he became. But adult me is a realist who doesn't want to be too old to really enjoy it when his boat's finally paid for.

So bottom feeder it is!
 
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