[davidpm]

So I just passed my Tech exam and should get my call sign in a few days.

I now know that passing that exam means I know approximately nothing and it will take some time of actually using a radio to even get close to knowing anything useful.

My purpose in getting the license was because I know many boats have ham setups and I want to be knowledgeable in any piece of equipment that might be on board as I do a lot of deliveries.

I've been reading up on the deal and this is what I think I know based on internet research.
Please read this over and correct me where I'm wrong so it doesn't take me 30 years to get to the bottom of this.

You can listen on any frequency you want to.
Anyone can transmit on marine vhf
The ham license (three levels) gives you transmit privileges on ham frequencies and modes. You have to take a test.
The marine ssb license gives you transmit privileges on marine frequencies on ssb, you have to pay money.

Some boats carry both a marine ssb radio and a ham radio.

Some boats have a marine ssb radio that has been unlocked so it can transmit on ham frequencies. This is technically against the rules but it is almost impossible for anyone to know.

Some boats have a ham radio that can transmit on marine frequencies but they may be caught as the marine radios are built to a higher standard and some crusers have been fined and have had their radios confiscated.

Marine SSB radios are much easier to use than HAM.
Ham radios are much more flexible.

There is almost always a Ham operator monitoring frequencies.
Most cruisers turn their Marine radio on only when they are going to use it as it uses a lot of power. So their may be no one to hear you.

Marine ssb radios are more likely to survive the salt air. The Ham radios will probably rust out after a few years.

Did I get this all about right?
I know I left a whole lot out.
There is all kind of info about nets, packet radio, email, weather, position locating etc that I'm just learning about.

It would be great of someone could recommend a book or write a FAQ.
It is a big subject.

If I'm going to do anything with my license I need to buy a radio. I don't plan on getting a boat that I would even consider putting a radio in for a couple years I don't know what to buy to learn how to use one.

 

[desert rat]

Check out ARRL, and other ham organizations (local if possible), they will give you excellent information about a cheap starter base station.

 

[newhaul]

Congrats on passing tech. I operated a mars station on the USS Carl Vinson Cvan 70. Back in the 80 's and yes there is always someone somewhere monitering ham radio

http://ac6v.com/nets.htm

 

[SVAuspicious]

Congratulations.

If you have your RROP get you licenses consolidated under a single FCC FRN. When you do get a boat use the same FRN for your ship station license.

So I just passed my Tech exam and should get my call sign in a few days.

For meaningful utility you should get your General class license.

You can listen on any frequency you want to.
Anyone can transmit on marine vhf
The ham license (three levels) gives you transmit privileges on ham frequencies and modes. You have to take a test.
The marine ssb license gives you transmit privileges on marine frequencies on ssb, you have to pay money.

Some boats carry both a marine ssb radio and a ham radio.

Some boats have a marine ssb radio that has been unlocked so it can transmit on ham frequencies. This is technically against the rules but it is almost impossible for anyone to know.

Some boats have a ham radio that can transmit on marine frequencies but they may be caught as the marine radios are built to a higher standard and some crusers have been fined and have had their radios confiscated.

Marine SSB radios are much easier to use than HAM.
Ham radios are much more flexible.

There is almost always a Ham operator monitoring frequencies.
Most cruisers turn their Marine radio on only when they are going to use it as it uses a lot of power. So their may be no one to hear you.

Marine ssb radios are more likely to survive the salt air. The Ham radios will probably rust out after a few years.

All correct with one caveat. Unlocking a marine radio that does not result in any change to the type-accepted radio (like the front panel unlock code for an Icom M802) is not, to my knowledge, even technically against the rules.

Modifying a ham radio for use on marine frequencies is indeed illegal and as you say means using a radio that does not mean the standards for marine operation. I'm not aware of fines or confiscations although such are possible.

There is all kind of info about nets, packet radio, email, weather, position locating etc that I'm just learning about.

For nets both ham and marine see Gary Jensen's list: SSB Nets & Frequencies

Note that there is a lot of technology overlap. For example packet radio, especially APRS, and AIS have a lot in common. Ham radiofax and weather fax are the same technology.

It would be great of someone could recommend a book or write a FAQ.
It is a big subject.

You might check your local library for copies of the ARRL Operating Manual and the ARRL Radio Handbook. Check with your local radio club (probably where you took your exam) for loaner copies and advice. There is a long history of outreach and support in the ham community. Some clubs even have loaner radios for new licensees.

If I'm going to do anything with my license I need to buy a radio. I don't plan on getting a boat that I would even consider putting a radio in for a couple years I don't know what to buy to learn how to use one.

There are lots of good radios on the used market. See the forum and reviews of radios on eHam.net Home - Amateur Radio (Ham Radio) Community Site . eBay is a good place to start shopping.

73 es sail fast de dave KO4MI

 

[davidpm]

All correct with one caveat. Unlocking a marine radio that does not result in any change to the type-accepted radio (like the front panel unlock code for an Icom M802) is not, to my knowledge, even technically against the rules.

That makes sense but I can't find anything definitive about that.
Apparently their is still the issue that the marine radio is dummed down enough that as a ham you may not be able to do what you want.

 

[Coquina]

You can listen on any frequency you want to. YES
Anyone can transmit on marine vhf PRETTY MUCH

The ham license (three levels) gives you transmit privileges on ham frequencies and modes. You have to take a test.
The marine ssb license gives you transmit privileges on marine frequencies on ssb, you have to pay money. PRETTY MUCH

Some boats carry both a marine ssb radio and a ham radio. A "ham" radio can include a lot of things not related to marine SSB as well as an HF SSB radio.

Some boats have a marine ssb radio that has been unlocked so it can transmit on ham frequencies. This is technically against the rules but it is almost impossible for anyone to know. NO - this is totally legal. I used to sell marine SSBs and some needed unlocking and some were that way stock. This is NOT illegal.

Some boats have a ham radio that can transmit on marine frequencies but they may be caught as the marine radios are built to a higher standard and some crusers have been fined and have had their radios confiscated. MAYBE - it is technically illegal, but you would have to do something dumb to attract attention. Back in the day a certain shore station was so used to sailors using ham radios and ham radio PK-232 TNCs to connect to their SITOR service they new the right offsets for them Still, with the flexibility of modern marine SSBs no reason to take the chance anymore.

Marine SSB radios are much easier to use than HAM.
Ham radios are much more flexible. There is almost always a Ham operator monitoring frequencies.
Most cruisers turn their Marine radio on only when they are going to use it as it uses a lot of power. So their may be no one to hear you. TRUE

Marine ssb radios are more likely to survive the salt air. The Ham radios will probably rust out after a few years. MAYBE My Kendwood TS-440 has survived a decade of marine use. It is however, not waterproof at all. Direct salt water would kill it.

Did I get this all about right?
I know I left a whole lot out.
There is all kind of info about nets, packet radio, email, weather, position locating etc that I'm just learning about.

It would be great of someone could recommend a book or write a FAQ.
It is a big subject.

If I'm going to do anything with my license I need to buy a radio. I don't plan on getting a boat that I would even consider putting a radio in for a couple years I don't know what to buy to learn how to use one.

Look for a local ham radio club. Look at ham radio websites like QRZ and EHAM.
73 de N3HGB M/M

 

[denverd0n]

Unlocking a marine radio that does not result in any change to the type-accepted radio (like the front panel unlock code for an Icom M802) is not, to my knowledge, even technically against the rules.

This is my understanding also. Some of the older marine HF sets could only be unlocked by opening them up and making internal modifications. That would void their type acceptance. Some of the newer radios (the 802 being the obvious example) can be unlocked with simple software setting modifications, which does not affect the type acceptance.

 

[svzephyr44]

Since you said you got a tech license I assume you are a US Citizen. You can not operate a marine VHF radio outside the US (e.g. Canada, Mexico and the Bahamas) without a ship station license (the same one you need for a marine SSB radio.) You also need a radiotelephone operators permit. Go to the FCC site - wireless telecommuications bureau - FCC: Wireless Services: Maritime Mobile Service: Maritime Mobile Home read... It is a well written description.

Also you should be aware - your ham license is portable - wherever you are you can operate with the permission of the host country. A marine radio license belongs to the ship - you can not get one - only the ship can get one. So it is more than just pay the fee. Your radiotelephone operators permit is also portable - it goes with you permitting you to operate a marine radio in accordance with the law.

Fair winds and following seas

 

[Coquina]

Station license goes with the boat/airplane.
Radiotelephone operators permit goes with the person.
I can't say anyone ever looked for any of these things in all the times I have been to the Bahamas and Bermuda, but that is a small sample size.
Speaking of the Bahamas, I was impressed by their good mannered sharing of radio spectrum. They use marine VHF for *everything* and no one gets on the taxi channel to explain why some regulation means it isn't really for taxis and they can very well read War and Peace on it if they want to.

 

[denverd0n]

your ham license is portable - wherever you are you can operate.

This is not true. The United States has agreements with a goodly number of countries that allow you to operate with just your U.S. license. There are, however, countries that do not have such an agreement, and transmitting on the ham bands from inside their jurisdiction, without first getting a reciprocal operating permit from them, would be illegal. A nearby example would be the Bahamas.

Here is an ARRL web page with more information...
Reciprocal Permit FAQs

Of course, in international waters you are not in anyone's jurisdiction. In that case your U.S. license is all you need.

 

[davidpm]

This is my understanding also. Some of the older marine HF sets could only be unlocked by opening them up and making internal modifications. That would void their type acceptance. Some of the newer radios (the 802 being the obvious example) can be unlocked with simple software setting modifications, which does not affect the type acceptance.

That is interesting and pretty good news.

Two questions:

1. Is the 802 THE radio or does it have some real competition? If so what models are similar or maybe better or cheaper but still have the dual usage capability.

2. The way I understand it the control head is simplified from what straight ham radios have. What would a ham operator miss from their dedicated set and how much of a problem would it be?

 

[hellosailor]

David-
You will probably receive a letter from the ARRL in the mail in the next couple of weeks, offering a "new ham" special membership rate. Or you can contact Home and askthem for that rate, as soon as you get your license. (Available from the online database when it is issued, no need to wait for the paper.)
ARRL is the national organization for ham radio in the US. Many publications and resources available.

For "marine ham" matters, look up Gordon West, a very well known and respected sailor, ham, and author who has published a lot on the subject.

With a technician's license, you can certainly buy any ham radio you please (no license required at all actually) but you are mainly much restricted to the VHF/UHF bands that have similar range and performance to a marine VHF radio. There's a narrow slice of HF you can also use, but if you really want to "do" ham radio for long distance, like a marine SSB? You'll need to press on and take the general class license.

ARRL, Gordon West, and a number of online sources have books and web sites to help with that.

 

[SVAuspicious]

1. Is the 802 THE radio or does it have some real competition? If so what models are similar or maybe better or cheaper but still have the dual usage capability.

Furuno and Sailor both make DSC SSB radios. They aren't cheaper by a long shot. I think all the Sailor units are 24 VDC. Icom makes an 801 that costs more but is more robust (it meets CE rules for water intrusion the 802 doesn't meet).

The 802 is a great value among the limited competition for new radios.

On the used market there are many more options. Few are as easy to use on ham radio as the 802 and some don't have a path to e-mail if that matters to you.

2. The way I understand it the control head is simplified from what straight ham radios have. What would a ham operator miss from their dedicated set and how much of a problem would it be?

Filter selection is the big one for me. Everything else is second order.

 

[davidpm]

So it looks like someday I'll probably get an 802.
Until then what are the chances I will be able to tune in (listen only) to any marine traffic on this HT Kenwood TH-F6A.

If so what kind of antenna would likely be the most successful.

 

[davidpm]

Filter selection is the big one for me. Everything else is second order.

Rats, I hate this stage of understanding. The stage where you know enough to ask a question but not enough to even understand the answer.

 

[SVAuspicious]

Until then what are the chances I will be able to tune in (listen only) to any marine traffic on this HT Kenwood TH-F6A.

The TH-F6A is VHF and up only for transmit. You can open it up to listen to marine VHF but I suspect that isn't what you mean. As I read the specs there is no SSB capability (you need a BFO for that). You can listen to international AM broadcast on HF (shortwave) that isn't what will interest you.

Read up on spectrum, frequencies, and modes.

 

[davidpm]

The TH-F6A is VHF and up only for transmit. You can open it up to listen to marine VHF but I suspect that isn't what you mean. As I read the specs there is no SSB capability (you need a BFO for that). You can listen to international AM broadcast on HF (shortwave) that isn't what will interest you.

Read up on spectrum, frequencies, and modes.

Thanks for putting up with my dumb questions.

As I read the specs it specifically says SSB for receive only, what am I missing.

KENWOOD TH-F6A 144/220/440 MHZ HANDHELD TRANSCIEVER+WIDEBAND RECEIVER(SSB,CW),

But I have learned enough to know that just because it says that doesn't mean I will be able to pick up marine ssb frequencies.

And even if it will pick up marine ssb frequencies I'm sure I'll need an antenna.

Yes my knowledge of spectrum, frequencies and modes is in its infancy. I'm working on it.

 

[SVAuspicious]

As I read the specs it specifically says SSB for receive only, what am I missing.

KENWOOD TH-F6A 144/220/440 MHZ HANDHELD TRANSCIEVER+WIDEBAND RECEIVER(SSB,CW)

You missed nothing - I did. Read too fast. My apologies.

You will want a bunch of wire up in the air for marine SSB reception. Do be sure you can get a connector for the antenna.

I didn't read the owner's manual (it is on the Kenwood website) but I bet they talk about external antennas.

I see Universal Radio has a special for $300.

 

[btrayfors]

Keep working at it!

In theory, your radio is capable of receiving SSB and CW signals over a wide frequency range, including HF (3-30 mHz) where most of the marine SSB transmissions take place.

However, the radio does not have a true product detector; rather, it uses IF filtering for SSB and CW modes. This is from the Icom manual:

The transceiver uses a general purpose IF filter to
receive signals in LSB, USB, CW and AM modes.
So, when you receive signals in LSB or USB mode,
the opposite side band signal is not fully attenuated.
At the same time, since the same filter is used for CW
reception, you may have difficulties seperating the
CW signal from other signals in the crowded band.

What that means is that you may indeed be able to hear some marine SSB transmissions, but not as clearly as you would with a true SSB radio. And, they won't be anywhere near as easy to tune.

Still, it's worth a try. Listen in on 8152 kHz every morning beginning at 0830 Eastern time. You may hear one or more of the many boats checking into the Cruizheimer's Net on marine SSB. And, throughout the day you may hear some traffic on the ham frequency 14,300 kHz where the Intercon Net and the Maritime Mobile Service Net take place.

As noted above, you really need a General Class ham license for maritime operation. I'd work on that...spend your time boning up, get the license, then get a real SSB transceiver. You can get a ham or even marine SSB rig for $200 and up. Even the lower cost transceivers have excellent receivers which will afford you the opportunity to listen as much as you like and, eventually, to transmit as well.

Good luck and 73,.

Bill
WA6CCA

 

[davidpm]

As noted above, you really need a General Class ham license for maritime operation. I'd work on that...spend your time boning up, get the license, then get a real SSB transceiver. You can get a ham or even marine SSB rig for $200 and up. Even the lower cost transceivers have excellent receivers which will afford you the opportunity to listen as much as you like and, eventually, to transmit as well.

Yes I'll go for general asap.
Any candidate receivers you have in mind. None of my Elmers seem to have any knowledge of marine matters and other than maybe a minor interest in ARES my interest is exclusively marine.

I expect to be full time on board in about two years so I don't want to go to the expense of building a killer shack although it would be fun.

My thought was to get a short wave scanner to pick up marine ssb traffic just to get used to the lingo. I've found that "old ears" sometimes take a little time to adjust to a combination of poor reception and special vocabulary. I've got nothing to do anyway for a couple years so I figured I could at least get used to it.

Then I figured I would get a good HT like a t CT-60R or VX-6R or Vx-7 some of them are waterproof so when I'm doing coastal deliveries I would have something to keep myself entertained on watch.

Then I saw the above kenwood model and figured I could get it all in one small box.

You are a unique resource as you know boating and Ham so now that you know my goals maybe you could point me in the right direction.