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Discussion Starter #1
If someone could give up on any and every luxuries ("Sleeping on a mattress"; dogs can sleep on the floor, men can too!), and who would have the simplest, most basic/primitive boat on the planet, then what would that boat look like?

First let's see what the "law" obliges you to have (By the way I have no Idea what Im talking about, just starting up a conversation between a bunch of cyber sea wolves)

- Insurance ? Iv seen people use that word when they talk about boats. Do we need license plates like on a car ? Inspection?
- Lights ? Ya know those things that show you there's a boat when its dark or foggy. What is the simplest way to do this? Obviously, the farther away we stay from any form of electricity, the better!
-Anything else...

Does any of you wonder why I didn't start with the essential components of the BOAT itself ? Well, most of us live in fascist states/empires/kingdoms nowadays, so we all want to avoid concentration camps as much as possible. So now let us see about the basics of the boat.

- A hull. Very vague and a big, big subject right here. Wood? I think so. Why? I dont know how to make fiberglass. I know where wood comes from. So Now I have an unlimited amount of repair material. Shape? Well well, I would go with a full keel (Especially if its wood), maybe double-ender (Simpler). Lenght ? As small as possible, of course!
- Rigging. someone else figure that out. Just keep in mind; basic!
- Cabin. Now theres a real bugger I think. Technically, windows, or whatever you call holes in the boat with clear material to see outside/inside, well these make a problem; they are holes in the boat! But if they really are necessary, then I guess the boat would have a few, then seeing the weather is much easier. As for the interior, I imagine some kinda storage containers would be suitable. Headroom is unimportant.
- Navigation aid. A compass, A sextant or two, a clock, some charts, tide tables, stuff about stars, books, lots of books, and all that good stuff. And a nice dry watertight spot for all that good stuff. Maybe some spares.
- Water tank. Very self explanatory
- Bilge pump ... Bucket ?
- Anchor.
- Tools. All hand tools.
- Some spare gear/equipment/material/rope/chain/sails/sailcloth.
- Heat ... Wood stove ? that sounds good to me, but Im not too sure.

Of course theres a lot of room for design discussion. As for why I started this; I wanna get a couple pointers for my first boat. Doesn't mean It would be that great, just a direction Im taking. Only downside is that having such a boat (Apart from living the life of a middle-ages peasant) makes it hard to make a girlfriend. But that's a whole other debate.
 

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For a cruising boat, it's been done. Either a Day/Mowers Seabird Yawl, or an L.F. Herreshoff Rozinante.

Both are wonderful, well thought out little cruising boats. The Rozinante positively sparkles under sail.
 

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Well

We were happy to camping on are J24 with two couples throughout the 80s

We kind of like a REAL shower now as the solar shower on the deck does get OLD :)


I also do enough care and feeding on a 35' i race on to know its way more work and money than i want to spend
 

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As far as I know no one makes liquid fuel lights that meet current standards in terms of required brightness. I regret that to be the case since for many years I continued to use Kerosene lights off a 1939 wooden boat that I used to own and had restored. The best solution here might be to use a masthead tri-color with low wattage consumption LED's and a solar panel to keep them charged.

Many states do not require boats under 7 meters (roughly 23 feet) and without an engine to be registered. That may help with some of the legal issues but you need to check your particular state to see what their specific requirements would be. Oddly some states require boats on trailers to be registered regardless of length or the absense of an engine)

Boats up to 25 feet or so can be rowed in moderately flat water. (I used to row my 25 foot folkboat which did not have an engine or registration. ).

I should also note, that when Taliesin says, "I would go with a full keel (Especially if its wood)" ....that a full keel uses much more material and is actually harder to build in a wooden boat, and produces a longer garboard seam, which is the highest risk seam in the boat. Moderately long fin keels are easier to build and do not require a garboard seam.


For that matter, "maybe a double-ender (Simpler)" it only confirms that Tallesin has never tried to plank a double ender. A transom stern is far easier to build in wood, and also far sturdier and more trouble free to build properly since you are not counting on a rabbeted seam.

When I was a kid I onced cruise on a friend's 17 foot National One design. NODRA National One Design Racing Association We slept on the floor boards under a boom tent. Of course I was probably 15 or so at the time. I can't imagine my 59 year old body tollerating that for very long but it was a lot of fun back then. It didn't get more simple than that.

Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Thank you for all the pointers. I guess my obsession with big keeled double-enders had nothing to do with simplicity. Thank you Jeff. And it should be obvious that a boat that has no emphasis on comfort should not necessarily have a comfortable motion. So a fin keel and a transom. Plastic ? Maybe plastic then, even thou wood remains attractive, just because it's wood I guess. Something else I would like that boat to do; resist capsize. I heard that a beamy light boat should be more prone to capsize than a heavy narrow one.
The small boat with boom tent sounds fun, just too cold in winter. Whats the simplest heating system out there ?
 

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We have had many great weekends out on our 1971 Cal25. Although it does have a head it is pretty basic. No galley, we cook on a portable propane grill and a camping stove. I have a solar lantern that we run up a halyard for an anchor light. A 5 gallon jerry can is usually enough water for a weekend.
 

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Siren 17
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Phil Bolger designed a series of small cruisers. The micro is 16' and the long micro is 19' if memory serves. Pretty basic designs. There's always stich and glue designs that use both wood and glass.
 

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Anchor lights

I have solar yard lights that I got at Walmart. $15.00 for four of them. At sack time I take two up on deck and slip them into a bungee around the mast at arms reach high. The ones that remain below I put in a locker, as they are still on in the morning. Two is cool, but four in one room is easily enough to read by.
 

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Your questions lead to more questions...

What do you want to do with this boat? Do you want to learn to sail...do you want to weekend cruise...do you want to race...do you want to cross oceans?

My boat is an excellent choice for learning to sail or maybe week cruise in coastal waters. I love my boat but would laugh at anyone who wanted to cross an ocean in her. She is big enough for a couple to sail for a vacation if you really want to.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well I want to learn to sail for sure. Thats one. Not a priority to race, even thou at my young age I probably would, but I am not looking for a fast boat. Weekend cruise? I cant really tell week-end from week-middle or week-start, but that sounds good. Cross ocean; heres the real meaty bone. Thats it! You hit the bulls eye. The really untamable and uncivilized part of the world. Would I do it with your boat ? Well if it floats that should do. Hell some people swam across oceans. But that was supposed to be a secret, cause if you know that Im gonna get lectured and all.
Did anyone read the story of William Willis and his voyages across the pacific on his rafts ? Good stuff.

Ideally the boat Im looking for will be dirt cheap, because If I start being fussy Ill never have a boat (Copper-nickel alloy anyone?). And also because I dont wanna have to start fixing stuff that just gets in the way; I mean, no offense but who the hell needs a fridge? Maybe I should just cross the pacific with a dugout canoe.

Catalina 27 has that tiller design that goes through the hull doesnt it? One more hole I gotta watch for ? Hell Im already worried about all those hatches and screws and all those other things I dont even know about.

Maybe someone will read this and say they've got an old daysailer and they'll give it to me if I really dare take it across the pacific! Ahaha!

Heres the real question I should ask;
Someone put a gun on your head and says you have to sail around the world with five thousand bucks. What boat will you look for ? (Why didnt I think of that before?)

So gentlemen, what will you pick be ?
Thank you
 

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Siren 17
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I'd put the money in the bank, then post anywhere and everywhere, and tell anyone and everyone that I was willing to sail to parts unknown as free help. This is coming from someone who was paid to sail for years. Mostly east coast but out in Hawiee as well. The best trips are free for the taking, and along the way you'll come across great deals on boats that are already in the part of the world you want to explore.

Better yet keep using other peoples boats and money to enjoy the dream. Then you can change your mind and chase off to be a safarie guide, penguin researcher, or just come back home if thats what you decide. And if it's not your boat then it's not your liability.
 

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anything is possible

I currently live aboard my 1976 Catalina 27 that I'm refurbishing to sail from the PNW to San Francisco, and then points south.

Simplicity is key.

No motor, no outboard - sails only. Keeps it light and makes me focus on my boat, the sky, and the ocean.

Interior electrical lights only, two deep cycle batteries, and one small solar panel to trickle charge.

Kerosene lantern and candle lanterns for inside, and kerosene running light lantern. Then, for when the weather turns foul, a 500 CP Petromax pressure kerosene lantern.

My single burner stove is also kerosene fueled. Therefore I only have the need for a single, unvolatile gas.

I have one new basic Garmine Marine handheld GPS. I also have my sextant with tables, instructional, and reference books. I also have books on essential subjects such as weather forecasting, living off the sea, repair books, and other entertaining volumes. Of course all the relative charts are on aboard as well.

I am doing major structural modifications and upgrades to make my boat up to snuff for the Pacific. Some of which include new oversized standing rigging, new lexan flush mounted windows, new oversized chainplates, new tiller and oversized tiller head bolt, sealed up outboard transom hole, installed Windpilot Windvane, new sail warddrobe, ground tackle, zodiac, etc, etc, etc

You could spend your life in harbour, continously upgrading and getting ready, but those who do so never really want to leave anyway. I plan to set sail with a minimal kitty and to just live life a completely different way. Anything is possible if you really want it.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Is that catalina 27 taking the zen well ? Funny we were just talking about one. Does it wear some of those through hulls ? Gotta plug those up real good, take a **** on the bowsprite like a good sailor. I like your story.
To come to what we were discussing; the one problem with me coming aboard somebody else's boat is that I wont be by myself. Sailing with someone else would be more of a chore. I might just flee with the boat's dinghy, cause thats how I usually react, I know. Well, only if I cant keep my energy levels below the thin red line.
If I sail with others, I'll still be avoiding the real deal; to be alone on a boat in the middle of nowhere. To scream until you throw up and then fall unconscious for a few days, wake up a new man, a man-animal. Forget how to speak, how to write, do yoga and sing and watch the sea and feel the wind, feel the untamable, feel every part of your self, your thirst, your hunger. Wreck the boat on a reef and swim to the beach. Take a few years, build a raft and head back out.
Iv had enough. I like this place, I can let it out here and some people kinda understand. In the meantime the american people are being disarmed and their war veterans are committing record "(suicides?)".
So, how about a catalina 22 then ? Some have a fixed keel dont they ? would just have to make everything watertight and I could sit out storms like a piece of cork(Bouchon de liege). Gotta love it.
 

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Siren 17
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If your thinking is along the lines that people will drive you crazier then owning your own boat, your mistaken. It's really easy to jump ship once you get to port then it is to get rid of a boat. Thats why you'll find really good deals on boats in the middle of nowhere. There aren't many buyers in the marianas or costa rica. they just don't have a big middle class interested in owning toys.

Every where you go your going to have to find somewhere to leave your boat. Want to spend a couple of weeks in the jungle, got to find someone to watch your boat, or it won't be there when you get back. If what your looking for is freedom, then a boat is going to be a big anchor around your neck. Better to get somewhere then pick up what you need for your adventure at a price that your likely to be able to sale it for in a few months.

The other hitch in your plan is trying to acheive a state of zen off all by yourself doesn't lead to an ability to sit peacefully when all about you is in chaos, to do that you need to be able to acheive it in the middle of a crowd. By that I mean a friend of mine tryed to find the deepest darkest cave so he could sit in quiet darkness and meditate, he found that complete darkness and quiet is really hard to find. Better to be able to find that spot in your self. Same for me. Once in the middle of Maryland miles from all who knew me, or so I thought, at least thats the thought that crossed my mind at the time. Untill I got back to the boat and found out that at the time I was thinking this over, one of the crew members was driving by and saw me.

So let me give you some advice, the boat is a sucubus, it's leading you away from what your seeking. Instead of setting off for part unknown, finding adventure and meaning in your life, you'll get stuck having to fix this or that, paying for dockage and mantaince, having to figure out exactly where your going and how your going to get there. Instead, try letting go and letting the universe take you to where you want to be and find you the things you should do. You'll be plesantly suprised I'd bet.

I never wanted to go to Haweii but learned a lot more there then I would have suspected. Same for Bosnia. You could find more by buying a motorcycle and criss crossing the US. Doesn't seem as exotic, I know. If boats are what you feel attracted to then go that way but if you get locked onto the idea that you have to have this before you can go, and that leads to needing all these things and needing to learn how to do all this before you can really get out there, then your more likely to get endlessly stalled out. There will always be something else that keeps you from getting there.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
You're right. Having a boat isn't really what I want.
A dark cave wouldn't be a voyage althou I was also considering hiking across the rockies. Then I read "La longue route" (the long way), Moitessier's lone journey, and it gave me a glimpse of what can be found in one's self when riding that fine edge long enough, past the limits of tolerance and sanity, past even understanding. He himself didn't really know why he kept going, like he said, but just knew he had to.
I believe the mind can seek its true potential only if the body follows and alternatively leads the same path. They both complement each other and so one cannot drag the other behind for very long.
Bernard anchored at Thaiti when Joshua (The steel beast) had had enough. Another rounding of the Horn might have proven successful or not. But he had probably gone as far as the boat and the sea would have let him.
If I dont stand the trial of the sea, alone, then I might wish I had.
But when I read your post I have to give in. In seeking the truth I cannot turn it back when it is given to me, and you speak the truth.
I am moving out of here at the end of the month, and I will probably go to the coast of BC. Or on the island, as I have been there before and liked it. Danjarch, I am very thankful to have been given so wise an advice. You'll agree with me it is hard to go through all the b u l l s h i t before you can come across something worthwhile. I will pass the wisdom on to others if I am ever given the chance.
 

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Siren 17
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Your welcome.
 
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