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I've been noticing that many of the newer cruising boats to hit the market, especially the new Beneteaus and Jeanneaus seem to be really trying to simplify sail control. For a while, now the trend seemed to be in-mast furling. Now, it seems they've even decided to deep-six the traveler completely. Jeanneau's new 349 does not even use jib cars. You need to upgrade to a performance edition to get a low friction ring system to control the sheeting angle in lieu of jib cars and tracks.

It is odd that these new boats also have wide, flat beams, dual rudders and dual helms with carbon fiber wheels as an option. But then again, they also have throw pillows on the cockpit benches in the advertising photos!
 

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The no main traveler comes from racing boats!

But good engineering makes things simpler. Look on a tall ship of olden days and not only is it complicated but extremely expensive in materiels and maintenance and takes a huge crew to sail.

A few hundred years of great engineering has totally transformed sail boats.
 

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njsail,

Did you ask what the reasoning was behind no traveler? Was the traveler an option? Nice boat by the way.

When Dufour had GibSea ( I think both owned by Bene at the time) lots of the GibSeas did not have travelers or vangs. I remember one of 37' that surprised me. Sailing that boat was OK, but a traveler would have made it a better rig.
 

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bell ringer
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most cruisers don't spend a bunch of time fine tuning sail trim to start with, so probably even rarer adjust a traveler
 

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The no main traveler comes from racing boats!

But good engineering makes things simpler. Look on a tall ship of olden days and not only is it complicated but extremely expensive in materiels and maintenance and takes a huge crew to sail.

A few hundred years of great engineering has totally transformed sail boats.
Interestingly enough though, in some ways yachting is returning to the old ways. For centuries (millennia?) the masts on sailing vessels were stayed by rope. Then came cable, first steel, then stainless. Then came solid rod rigging, nice, but so expensive. Now we are returning to line to hold up our masts. Many of the Maxi-yachts are using line. Spliced and I even seen it served as in the days of old.
So, here at least, we've come full circle and perhaps soon, a rigger will become indispensable on the crew of every modern yacht.
 
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simplicity rules...and many new cruising boats are focused on this....maybe to the dismay of racer cruiser sailors of days gone by.

I think the new trend is because there is a lot more marketing and research these days and much more knowledge of what new cruisers want...or not.

to some this is good to others bad...but just like many other products, vehicles, goods, there is a trend of going back full circle if you will

the motorcycle industry is one that comes to mind for me, in certain types of models, where air cooled, simple controls, ergos and less computer gadgets are wanted so you experience what riders did 100 years ago...

I think that if a boat can be engineered to not need a traveller, not need complex running rigging to adjust and tune sails, not need massive amounts of hardware and gear to do the basics I think thats good because it attracts new sailors to the sport...

if cruising at least coastal can be made more accessible by doing so with simple modern boat designs I see that as good.

of course for those of us who want smart, well designed, tuneable and common cruising sense designs to cruise with I think we will have to go the way of custom designs.

I think there is a trend now of more custom boats than say 10, 20, 30 years ago...overall.

but cant confirm that.
 

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Mark,
How does one get the boom to center without pulling out all the twist?
I don't know. I havent raced or been on one. But have seen a few around here in St Martin.
I am trying to google some now.


But this boat loots a bit superyachty...
 

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think about it...how many racing dinghies have travellers? if you make a dinghy and upsize it you get what many of these boats look like these days...

maybe a new trend should be a dyneema "traveller" like you find on a laser it wouldnt be adjusteable per se but at least the sheet blocks will travel to its "best position naturally by way of sheet adjustment

who knows???? jajajaja
 

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I can't imagine not having a traveler. it makes my boat so much easier to handle than she would be with a fixed sheeting position.
Agreed. I've owned boats with and without a traveler and the difference is huge upwind. Maybe if you're using a rigid or 3Di-style soft foil you don't need it because the sail shape is less affected by mainsheet tension but with traditional fabric sails, it's very helpful to decouple the sail shaping function of the mainsheet from the angle of attack function of the traveler.
 

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Well, a really stiff boom held down by a really strong vang can accomplish what a traveler does, at least from midships to way out to leeward.

But if you can't easily pull the boom windward of centerline, then you're doomed to pulling the main down, but not in, once you're close-hauled. Meaning very little twist, which some of us would find limiting for upwind work.

Maybe a new generation of cruisers and designers don't think it's important?
 

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think thats the point...they are going for simple...midline performance is OK. if you want more then go for the extras

just like you would buying a car...

marketing
its also a better way to make money with add ons, on stuff that used to be included...
Ill add having said that its ibvious new boats perform better as a whole than equal length older boats...weight savings, design etc...so maybe the builders can get away with some savings gear wise? dunno
 

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Maybe a new generation of cruisers and designers don't think it's important?
BANG!!

"Hey, Honey, I just killed another land lubber guest! He tripped over the Traveler!"
"Thats terrible! Is the traveler OK?"

As they say cruisers at mostly at anchor even in active cruising years. Folks weekend sailing are different and so are racers.

So what is important for each of the three groups can be very different. One example is easy of sail handling... where a race boat can do a job in 30 seconds it may take Mum and Pop half an hour because the race boat had 10 people working in a cooridinated fashion for 10 seconds. Where Dad may have to walk up to the foredeck 3 or 4 times to do the same thing whilst Mum is on the helm...

On my comments about race boats not having travelers, I can't find any photos of full on race boats without them, but on the larger, newer cruising boats some are running the bitter end to a coverable u bolt in the cockpit deck and then UP through the boom, forward, and then down and to a winch in the cockpit. So when they are not sailing the bitter end is untied, a cover put over the u bolt and the cockpit is clear. The boom, of course, ebing held up by the vang, not often by a topping lift. Sorry if I've made a mistake with the race boat thing. Has anyone else seen them?
 

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Unfortunately, we're in an age of "dumb" and "instant gratification". The more simple a system is, the more likely it's going to sell. Nobody wants to start out on the smaller boat and learn. They'd rather start on their 40+ foot yacht.

So why incur the expense of hardware that a majority of your potential customers don't care about? It may hurt your chances of selling a boat. "Hey look, just a few lines is all you have to learn and you're out looking like a playah fo' realz."
It isn't hard to get a sailboat to move. It IS hard to master good sail trim. Many don't want to learn the details. And that's fine. I just hope that type of sailor doesn't overwhelm the market to where a boat with those options becomes something made of unobtanium.

My hunter has no traveler and no jib cars and I wish it did. It's okay for the lake sailing I do but I have lots of points of sail where trim isn't optimal. I can't depower sails very easily in a gust, which we get a lot of here. I can't really shape the jib.
If I reef the jib, then the sheet angle goes to hell and they caution can possibly pop the roller furler drum. So I've got some weather conditions that are perfectly safe to sail in with the proper equipment but mine lacks such so I'm at the dock. The deck construction makes it impossible to add jib cars unless you really fubar the deck and interior. The traveler option is so narrow that it's not worth the expense.

I think I must be in a bad mood today. :laugher
 

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Well, a really stiff boom held down by a really strong vang can accomplish what a traveler does, at least from midships to way out to leeward.

But if you can't easily pull the boom windward of centerline, then you're doomed to pulling the main down, but not in, once you're close-hauled. Meaning very little twist, which some of us would find limiting for upwind work.
True enough and perhaps with the proliferation of solid vangs in place of topping lifts, that's what's going on. Here in the Salish Sea, where the wind is generally on the nose when it's not on your ass, that extra 5-10 degrees of upwind angle a traveler gives can mean a lot. It may not be as big a deal in other places.
 

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Although I like a traveler, to each their own. This boat will sail well without the traveler, may give up a little upwind angle, but it is designed to make the customers happy. It has been a fairly successful model so something must be working.
 
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