[JagsBch]

I took the 500lb steel keel off of my 20' mirage. I got tired of it banging back and forth from it bouncing around in the keel trunk in choppy water. Now that I got it off I am entertaining taking it out to do some red fishing in one of the many creeks around here on the intercoastal in Jacksonville.

I might draft 6 inches now that I removed the keel. I was wondering how much of a bad idea this is. I had a few motor boat captains acting sceptical as to weather this was a safe thing to do.

It is a 1979 20' Mirage. She is a pretty fast sailboat. I plan on sanding the keel that is is very rusty and repainting it, and then placing some brass sleeve's on either side of the keel in the trunk to minimise the back and forth banging that occurs in choppy water.

I had planned on using aluminum sleeves on eachside of the keel in the trunk but someone said it would speed up the rust process. Any suggestions?

 

[Valiente]

Look up "galvanic corrosion". Dissimilar metals in a keel will make it happen.

 

[scottyt]

dont try to sail anything other than dead down wind with out the keel, use a motor to go up the creeks

 

[JagsBch]

I was just going to motor boat around until I have it hauled out at a nearby marina so I can reinstall the Keel when it is ready. Not planning on sailing without the keel tried that before with it up... No foil whatsoever.

Speaking of foil I wonder what would happen if you had an adjustible fin or fins on the bottom of your keel in order to manipulate the foil to increase bite. It is done with the mast by bending it to gain speed, well if you had two fins parallel to the keel that could be angled by turning a shaft running up the keel in order to increase speed by reducing the degree the boat is tilted in.

What do you guys think? Has anything like this been attempted.

 

[sailortjk1]

Have fun docking and maneuvering in tight spaces.

 

[JagsBch]

Am I going to have a rough time motoring without the keel?

 

[bubb2]

You do have the keel stump attached and you removed the centerboard? I hope that is what you are saying!

 

[sailortjk1]

You do have the keel stump attached and you removed the centerboard? I hope that is what you are saying!

Mike, he says this as part of the post...

I might draft 6 inches now that I removed the keel.

 

[bubb2]

I hope he has a big bucket! Because he has a stability problem!

 

[smackdaddy]

Jags, I just read some pretty whacky stuff that someone posted under your name in the "Lost at Sea" thread. I didn't want to say anything there to keep the thread legit....but...dude!?!

Sheep, operas, and dirty diapers? Spiritual in-tune-ment with surgical precision? Seriously?

Dude! You're pulling your freakin' keel off your boat! What are the sheep saying about that?

In rating those posts I'd have to give them a:

Jeez. Get a Mac!

(P-eth, jutht remember the lethon of the Titanic. No boat ith unthinkable.)

 

[merc2dogs]

Most keels stick out a few inches even when fully retracted to keep the boat pointing ahead. Without it you loose a control surface on the boat.
Many sailboats need the weight below to provide stability, without it you may find that moving out to the rail is enough to dip it.

Delrin or similar material would be good for bushings on the keel, pretty much self-lubricating, and fairly simple to cut and form to shape, easily worked with regular woodworking tools. Large bearing surfaces will help controll swinging without requireing massive pressure on the keel bolt.
Determine how much clearance you have in the keel trunk, pick up delrin of half that thickness, then you can either cut it out with a holesaw, or just cut it square and round the corners a bit.

Ken.

 

[JagsBch]

I cut the pin the keel pivoted on, and it dropped. Thing I am wondering is how much of a role the keel played in actually stabilizing the boat while simply motoring.

I am in the prossess of bending a pressure treated 2x8 in order to place it where a wrotten piece of plywood used to be in the back of the transom connecting the deck to the hull.

I need about 1 1/2 inches to go before I install it. Then I plan on putting it in the water to do the unthinkable which is turn it into a motor boat until I get the keel back in place.

I am weighing my options as to how to deal with the keel, not only with the issue of it bouncing back and forth from port to stern, but whether to have it dipped or just painted.

To get it galvenized is going to run me about $400 from one quote I got. I want it to be top knotch.

 

[JagsBch]

Most keels stick out a few inches even when fully retracted to keep the boat pointing ahead. Without it you loose a control surface on the boat.

Many sailboats need the weight below to provide stability, without it you may find that moving out to the rail is enough to dip it.
Ken.

Thanks Ken.
Keel does ride down about 8" below the boat. That is what I was afraid of...uke

Dude! You're pulling your freakin' keel off your boat! What are the sheep saying about that?

This is why I decided to post a thread about it, thinking that having it lifted off of the trailer rather than out of the water at a marina might
be a better bet for the proccess of having to put the keel back on. I don't think I want to attempt it while it is on the trailer, it was hard enough taking it out while it was on the trailer.

I knew for a fact this was a great place to get some seriously good advice. Delrin was not even an option of mine prior to today, and no way was I going to put the boat in the water if there was even a question of it dipping as a result of me moving over to the rail.

Back to the drawing board...

 

[smackdaddy]

No sweat Jags, this is definitely a great place to get great advice. I was just scratching my head on those LaS posts. Sounded like you were going a little existential on the dude. I felt like I was smokin' a doob with Heidegger or something.

 

[NCC320]

Jags,

Now that you have removed the keel from your boat and plan to go motoring for fishing, did you think to remove the mast so that your boat will not be top heavy and run the risk of capsizing if it gets to rocking and rolling a bit while fishing. In my opinion, not a wise decision....don't use the boat until you get it repaired properly....and that means like the original builder had it in the first place.

 

[bubb2]

Jags, I just finished reading your posts over at the "Lost at Sea" thread. I find it a little ( I not sure of the words I want to use) that you would be critical of a sailor's boat preparation and offering all kinds of advice about what he did wrong in one thread and be asking in another thread is it a good idea if I take my boat out without the centerboard in another.

 

[camaraderie]

Ditto Jags...I think that with mast up and all ballast removed from the boat, moving around alone might be enough to capsize since the boat was designed to ride with that 500 lbs. in the bottom and the hull was designed for speed rather than stablity as in a bass boat. If you decide to try this you might first want to stand on the rail dockside and try to rock the boat while holding on to the mast to see just how tippy she will be.
Be wearin' that PFD!

 

[cruisingdream]

rent a row boat its cheap & safe (designed to troll around the creek fishing)

 

[JagsBch]

You have to remove the mast in order to trailer it, I can drop and raise it solo in about 5 minutes. That is one of the sweetest features of the boat. The mast was going to stay home until the keel was replaced. I am still tempted to put the boat in the water to get a feel for just how much of an impact the keel makes as far as the stability factor goes on the boat. The ramp is not far at all. It is a lot closer than when I will manage to get the keel back on.

Sounded like you were going a little existential on the dude. I felt like I was smokin' a doob with Heidegger or something.

The dude was not the only one blown away by the incident... The redundancy of complacency due to doing what ever makes us feel good as opposed to what is good, can keep us in a bubble to the point of allowing the virtual firewalls in our minds to seemingly protect us from allowing a bad example to being a good example of what not to do.

Tackling this escalation of mental entropy can often require hacking into an individuals mind through back door channels in order to expose them to the horror of scenerios lying in the outer fring of the blue using ironic analogies. Kind of like a slap in the face in the morning to wake you up. :laugher

 

[bubb2]

Jags, I wouldn't believe a one of them. Leave the centerboard on the dock and try a shake down to Bermuda. Then you will have your answers.