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Discussion Starter #1
I was talking to him this weekend. He repainted his boat about, maybe 6 weeks ago.

I painted mine about the same time. He asks me what type I used. I say epoxycop. Got pracitcal sailor budget buy.

So he says... "I think I made a big mistake.."

He is from michigan, bought this boat a couple of years ago and never takes it out. He just works on it. Mostly probably because it's a big boat and it's only him to run the boat (his wife is there too, but cant help).

So this week, is he big week. His family is comming down and they are all going to go out for several days. He finally has crew.

He then tells me that in preparation, he dove down and found barnacles.
Not a few. Tons. He says it's worse than when he started painting the boat.

He was very worried that he wouldn't be able to take the boat out. Was trying to scrape the bottom with his wooden paddle the best he could. Family was arriving very soon.

This morning the boat was out of the slip.

Anybody else had this problem with the west marine bottom paint. He said this was black one-year hard bottom paint.

groundhog
 

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If he is "from Michigan", are we to assume you and he are using the wrong paint for fresh water?
Regardless, WM does not formulate bottom paint - they re-label one of two paint formulator's paint and without knowing which, it's not reasonable to draw any conclusions. If the boat does not get used much (or at all as you imply), that makes a big difference in accumulation regardless of the efficacy of any paint.
 

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Chesapeake Sailor
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Anybody else had this problem with the west marine bottom paint. He said this was black one-year hard bottom paint.

groundhog
I've been using West PCA (ablative) for years. It is made for them by Pettit. It has performed as well as Hempel, Interlux, or Pettit that preceded it.
 

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Those aren't barnacles, they are zebra mussels and require paint formulated for freshwater. They are a major problem as invasive species go. They clog municipal water filtration systems all the time.

If a boat sits still zebra mussels will cover the bottom. An ablative paint needs motion to expose a new layer of biocide and drop the critters off.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Sorry. This is the chesapeake.
Barnacle country.

And even if he let the boat sit for 6 weeks, that means the barnacles were forming in the first few weeks?
This is 2 week bottom paint? Not 1 year?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I suppose.

He got it from the local west marine.
So I guess they put paint for the great lakes on the shelf for him to buy.
It is possible.

I will have to ask him what version of west marine paint he bought.
gh
 

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Farr 11.6 (Farr 38)
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There are a lot of factors that affect how well bottom paints perform from which paint he bought (Hard racing bottom paints need to be cleaned nearly every week in summer on the Chesapeake) to where the boat is located (flow or no flow, lots of neutriants vs none), usage, and most importantly how it was applied (stired frequently, all solids off the bottom of the can, thick enough application, minimal if any thinning). I have not used West Marine Bottom paint in a very long time but boats at my dock have and have gotten excellent performance so I don't know what the story is.

Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Well, I assumed he bought it here in the region, but I suppose it's possible that he purchased it in Michigan and drove it down to the maryland area. I will have to ask him about it and repost.

He seems a fairly competent guy, but I will also ask him if he stirred the paint, etc.
gh
 

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Tartan 37C
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I've heard from power boaters that this year has been the worst for growth and are having to short haul to clean running gear much earlier than in previous years. The yard crew is saying the same, and they think it's due to warmer water temps.

If he has an ablative, and hasn't been moving the boat, he's probably gonna have an issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I talked to him yesterday.
He bought the paint from the local west marine.

This stuff should be relabeled - barnacle food, or baracle quick-grow.
If you are a racer, you can get some and paint it on your buddy's boat bottom so the baracles will slow him down.
gh
 

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What paint? You still never answered this question someone else asked other than to say it was bought at WM.

Not sure what the message is here - we still have no clue what paint he used, how it was applied, how quickly the boat was splashed after painting, if it was applied properly, etc...
Given the hundreds if not thousands of gallons WM sells (of their various relabeled paints), my question would be what's the point?
 

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The moving myth!

I've heard from power boaters that this year has been the worst for growth and are having to short haul to clean running gear much earlier than in previous years. The yard crew is saying the same, and they think it's due to warmer water temps.

If he has an ablative, and hasn't been moving the boat, he's probably gonna have an issue.
Hi solare,


Being invloved in marine Antifouling development and testing for over thirty years i would like to dispel some myths around Ablative Antifouls.

Basically Ablative and to some extent Self polishing antifouls do not clean themselve by just moving the boat!

While boat speed will effect some growth removal most growth is removed by the lack of INITIAL attachment and inadequate "SUBSEQUENT" attachment to the ACTIVE LAYER of antifouling.

What does this mean?...

as a layman (if i can)...

An Ablative Antifoul is made using Semi soluble and soluble resins that have Cuporus Oxide ( a derivetive and more active compound of copper) blended and suspended amoungst them (along with other additives such as anti slime agents, solvents, color pigments...)

When the Antifoul (applied and cured on the hull) comes into contact with the salt water it reacts with the salt (sodium chloride. Sodium is a active metallic compound) and the initial Antifouing layer softens and slowly ablates cuporus oxide on the paint films surface.

This soft 'cuprous oxide laden film(goes green in white A/fouls) is the 'active layer that does all the work until expleted! then falls away to expose another new layer!

Growth that tries to attach to the soluble, soft Cuporus oxide laden "exposed" layer are either killed by the "biocide" (Cuporus oxide) and fall away or reach a certain size / wieght and fall away as the "soluble layer" breaks down to expose a new layer.

Moving the boat just creates a force that advances the process slightly.

Good Quality Ablative A/Fouls will never have growth on them and only slime. however if poor Mixing, application, and over zealous cleaning occurs and the product is either compromised or worn away they will have growth very quicky! (mainly on the old primer or previously spent old A/Foul)



with Ablative A/fouls they will 'clean" themselves with minimal water movement but can be expended prematurely if you either ...

go to fast!

clean to harshly

Apply to thin a coat or film build.


This info applies to salt water only. Fresh water is another problem as Copper based A/fouls do not work in fresh water as thier is no sodium chloride to "activate" them. this is another topic for another day.

I Hope this clarifies (in a crude and basic form) the workings of Ablative a/foul.

I apologise for the spelling. My spell check is broken and i had to rush this reply before going out!
 

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Also...

Rule of thumb for Antifouls selection is the amount of the Active ingrediant.

A A/foul with more Grams per litre of Cuprous Oxide is better than one with less. Taking into account the quality of the cuprous oxide and the blend of resins are equal!

Check the can or ask for a data sheet or MSDS and compare.

More is less in this case (more Cuprous (monovalent copper) Oxide is less growth)
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Dear Mr. k1vsk,

So, which paint that west marine sells as anti-fouling is only good for 1 week?

If I was to name the model number, then you would say what? "Oh, of course, everyone knows that model xxx is only good for a week!".

I will try to get this info for you, but, personally, if it was zebra mussle paint for fresh water applications, sold on the shelves at a chessapeake bay west marine, it should still last longer than a week or two.

And, he told me the shop attendant helped him pick it out.

geeesh.
groundhog
 

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Hi solare,


Being invloved in marine Antifouling development and testing for over thirty years i would like to dispel some myths around Ablative Antifouls.

Basically Ablative and to some extent Self polishing antifouls do not clean themselve by just moving the boat!

While boat speed will effect some growth removal most growth is removed by the lack of INITIAL attachment and inadequate "SUBSEQUENT" attachment to the ACTIVE LAYER of antifouling.

What does this mean?...

as a layman (if i can)...

An Ablative Antifoul is made using Semi soluble and soluble resins that have Cuporus Oxide ( a derivetive and more active compound of copper) blended and suspended amoungst them (along with other additives such as anti slime agents, solvents, color pigments...)

When the Antifoul (applied and cured on the hull) comes into contact with the salt water it reacts with the salt (sodium chloride. Sodium is a active metallic compound) and the initial Antifouing layer softens and slowly ablates cuporus oxide on the paint films surface.

This soft 'cuprous oxide laden film(goes green in white A/fouls) is the 'active layer that does all the work until expleted! then falls away to expose another new layer!

Growth that tries to attach to the soluble, soft Cuporus oxide laden "exposed" layer are either killed by the "biocide" (Cuporus oxide) and fall away or reach a certain size / wieght and fall away as the "soluble layer" breaks down to expose a new layer.

Moving the boat just creates a force that advances the process slightly.

Good Quality Ablative A/Fouls will never have growth on them and only slime. however if poor Mixing, application, and over zealous cleaning occurs and the product is either compromised or worn away they will have growth very quicky! (mainly on the old primer or previously spent old A/Foul)



with Ablative A/fouls they will 'clean" themselves with minimal water movement but can be expended prematurely if you either ...

go to fast!

clean to harshly

Apply to thin a coat or film build.


This info applies to salt water only. Fresh water is another problem as Copper based A/fouls do not work in fresh water as thier is no sodium chloride to "activate" them. this is another topic for another day.

I Hope this clarifies (in a crude and basic form) the workings of Ablative a/foul.

I apologise for the spelling. My spell check is broken and i had to rush this reply before going out!
+1 to all of the above info. I have painted more boats than I can count (was a boatyard grunt as young man) but have primarily used pettit trinidad and now Pettit Trinidad SR on my own boat. It is a likely possibility he was not mixing the paint as well as he should have between coats. Another posibility is the length of time the boat was out of the water after he had painted.
 

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+1 to all of the above info. I have painted more boats than I can count (was a boatyard grunt as young man) but have primarily used pettit trinidad and now Pettit Trinidad SR on my own boat. It is a likely possibility he was not mixing the paint as well as he should have between coats. Another posibility is the length of time the boat was out of the water after he had painted.
Yes +1 on that too.

stirring so the solids (Mainly cuprous oxide) is evenely dispersed and thus evenly spread in the applied paint film is very very important.

If not stirred and the Cuprous oxide settles in the bottom of the can then only the last few Square metres of film applied will have Cuporos oxide in it and thus actually stay clean,

Also adequate drying so all solvent has evaporated is important or you will get blistering and or bad fouling as the uncured film fails to perform to spec!

leaving it to long will also cause problems.

and remember to observe and mark (or photograph) your boat when you pull it out so as to identify all high growth (HIGH WEAR)areas. then you will know where to concentrate the most Antifoul (2-3 coats) for best performance.
 

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Yes +1 on that too.

stirring so the solids (Mainly cuprous oxide) is evenely dispersed and thus evenly spread in the applied paint film is very very important.

If not stirred and the Cuprous oxide settles in the bottom of the can then only the last few Square metres of film applied will have Cuporos oxide in it and thus actually stay clean,

Also adequate drying so all solvent has evaporated is important or you will get blistering and or bad fouling as the uncured film fails to perform to spec!

leaving it to long will also cause problems.

and remember to observe and mark (or photograph) your boat when you pull it out so as to identify all high growth (HIGH WEAR)areas. then you will know where to concentrate the most Antifoul (2-3 coats) for best performance.
OK mods time to give this guy a few rep power points ;)
 
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