[mad_machine]

I have personally thought that new boats were vastly overpriced. Not going into Aesthetics of sailing ability, but the idea of spending half a million or more on something you can get on a comparably used boat for a 10th price always seemed a bit outrageous..

Cue Cape Cod Shipbuilding:

The Cape Cod Marlin Heritage, loosely based on the Herreshoff Fish class is a small 23 foot classically designed weekender that does not give you a lot of frills. There are no enclosed heads, refrigerators, or even a sink or icebox. It simply has a Nice V-berth up front, two quarter berths, and room to get out of the rain.

Outside is all old fashioned full keel with all it's "difficulties" in reversing, pointing, or even speed.

Used they go for 2 to 10 thousand. I was actually looking at one when I bought my Sea Sprite... As Cape Cod Ship Building just reintroduced the boat with a much nicer cabin top.. $98,000

Suddenly those half million dollar boats do not look so expensive

http://www.capecodshipbuilding.com/site/fleet.php?boat=marlinheritage

 

[miatapaul]

Yea, the price of materials has gone up, but the price of good craftsmanship has gone way up. So what you are paying for is what amounts to artist finish carpenters and cabinet makers. You are paying for many hundreds if not thousands of hours of labor.

When they were 2 to 10,000 they had bare bone finish. Mostly in the 70's it was Formica style laminate covering all surfaces with only a bit of wood as trim. Now it is full on high end expensive wood veneer on all surfaces. Even "common" brands like Hunter and Catalina have veneered/solid wood surfaces on everything. Boats like the Marlin Heritage is a piece of artwork, and no one makes a workmanlike boat anymore.

 

[smurphny]

The difference between today and 50 years ago, when there was a growing middle class with some money to spend, is that there is really only one market for boats now: the 1%. This can be seen in many other areas as well like housing and luxury goods. Since there is almost no middle class anymore and those still in this endangered category are struggling to stay above water, smart vendors of boats, houses and handbags are targeting those with money to burn. It's the only market. Is a boat like that worth 100gs...absolutely not. Will some people pay any price to exhibit their wealth...YES. Overpriced has no effect on those who have more money than they could possibly spend in one lifetime. It is one of the obvious symptoms of the stratification of American society.

 

[krisscross]

I'm happy that there are good folks out there who can afford to buy these nice boats, because 30 years later I will be able to buy that same boat for 1/20 of the initial price, and it will still sail like on day 1.

 

[JimMcGee]

... there is really only one market for boats now: the 1%.

I won't argue that money is tighter today than 25 years ago, but I think you're overstating things a bit. There're no 1%'rs in our marina but there are folks who bought new.

And if we're honest a new boat has always been a luxury.

 

[ultraclyde]

First off - Hey Mad! Had no idea you were over here.

Second - It's the same as the performance car market - but even more so. Thinking I'll be moving up to a weekender style boat in a couple years, I went looking at new boats around 21-24 feet. Ouch. Locally a perfectly seaworthy 24 foot weekender with good sails and a decent outboard is only about $5k in good shape, much less if you're willing to do some repairs.

I wonder how many Catalina 25s were sold new last year? fewer boats means higher cost per boat to make a profit, which means a smaller customer base, which means fewer boats....it seems like an escalation with dire consequences, but I guess they manage to stay afloat. (ha!)

 

[StormBay]

Yea, the price of materials has gone up, but the price of good craftsmanship has gone way up. So what you are paying for is what amounts to artist finish carpenters and cabinet makers. You are paying for many hundreds if not thousands of hours of labor.

When they were 2 to 10,000 they had bare bone finish. Mostly in the 70's it was Formica style laminate covering all surfaces with only a bit of wood as trim. Now it is full on high end expensive wood veneer on all surfaces. Even "common" brands like Hunter and Catalina have veneered/solid wood surfaces on everything. Boats like the Marlin Heritage is a piece of artwork, and no one makes a workmanlike boat anymore.

On top of those improvements, you also have to take into consideration that 10k in 1970 had the same buying power as 62k does nowadays. Annual inflation between then and now was 4.15%.

 

[Rapp]

Long term financing at lower rates and 2 income families have made boats easier for non 1%'s to buy.Many of the people who buy them are stretched very thin,During the last recession I talked to a boat repossesor ,he was very busy as were repossesers of all types.It would be interesting to see how boat purchases are accomplished by people,meaning cash, financing etc.And does the "the rich stay rich by spending like they're poor,and the poor stay poor by spending like they're rich" saying apply/

 

[Minnewaska]

....Since there is almost no middle class anymore.....

This is the contemporary rhetoric. However, in 2013, 40% of US households made between $40k an $106k. In 1967, when the middle class was reportedly booming, it was between $35k and $72k, in 2013 dollars.

The problem is not lacking a middle class, it's not being able to afford to be in the middle class. With cell phones, cable bills, a new car for every household occupant, etc. Our standards have risen dramatically. No money left for a boat.

 

[Slayer]

Beautiful boat!

 

[Don L]

My household income puts us in the top 10%. Yet when I drive around I'm amazed at the size and number of large fancy houses! It makes me wonder how so many are doing better than me.

 

[Minnewaska]

My household income puts us in the top 10%. Yet when I drive around I'm amazed at the size and number of large fancy houses! It makes me wonder how so many are doing better than me.

Most aren't. They just borrowed too much.

 

[Rapp]

Most aren't. They just borrowed too much.

t
I agree ,I've talked to many people that go into house to work and a lot of these McMansions are sparcely furnished,and the people can barely pay the bill.One day I was cutting a guys hair that worked in a Factory,he was selling a rowhome,cashing out his 401K and then would need 12 hours of overtime a week to buy a house in a neighborhood he had no business in ,CRAZY

 

[ianjoub]

My household income puts us in the top 10%. Yet when I drive around I'm amazed at the size and number of large fancy houses! It makes me wonder how so many are doing better than me.

You ain't kidding. I was amazed. I just looked up the numbers. My wife and I fall somewhere between the top 1.5% to 5%. We consider ourselves to be barely middle class...

 

[ianjoub]

You ain't kidding. I was amazed. I just looked up the numbers. My wife and I fall somewhere between the top 1.5% to 5%. We consider ourselves to be barely middle class...

According to this site, top 2%...

 

[smurphny]

I won't argue that money is tighter today than 25 years ago, but I think you're overstating things a bit. There're no 1%'rs in our marina but there are folks who bought new.

And if we're honest a new boat has always been a luxury.

Yes, it's more like the top 10% but there is a great wealth gap now that did not exist back a few decades ago. That's another off-topic subject. I think there is a large percentage of the population who have crossed things like boats off their wish list.

 

[Pegu club]

This is the contemporary rhetoric. However, in 2013, 40% of US households made between $40k an $106k. In 1967, when the middle class was reportedly booming, it was between $35k and $72k, in 2013 dollars.

The problem is not lacking a middle class, it's not being able to afford to be in the middle class. With cell phones, cable bills, a new car for every household occupant, etc. Our standards have risen dramatically. No money left for a boat.

The middle class's biggest problem is the odd need to spend oneself out of the middle class, most of the consumer goods that the American middle class purchases in virtually no time at all becomes land fill, to many folk spend in an unwise fashion, granted this is jmo.

 

[smurphny]

This is the contemporary rhetoric. However, in 2013, 40% of US households made between $40k an $106k. In 1967, when the middle class was reportedly booming, it was between $35k and $72k, in 2013 dollars.

The problem is not lacking a middle class, it's not being able to afford to be in the middle class. With cell phones, cable bills, a new car for every household occupant, etc. Our standards have risen dramatically. No money left for a boat.

Not just empty rhetoric. The problem is in unearned wealth, something that did not exist to any great extent back a few decades ago. The shuffling of paper, sophisticated financial instruments and basic stock portfolios that have skyrocketed as of late have given those (the "rich")who own such assets a gigantic financial advantage for doing essentially NOTHING. It's a system rigged by Wall St. and is not a healthy or sustainable idea. It's not so much income but wealth that is lopsided, although you've got to gag at the compensation of some of the banksters and their ilk.

 

[Rapp]

I think a lot depends on where you live.Living in Nj 100K a year really goes nowhere.In Alabama or somewhere down South you'd be well off,plus its what you do with it,wether you're putting away for the future or spending as fast as you make it.

 

[Minnewaska]

....The shuffling of paper, sophisticated financial instruments and basic stock portfolios that have skyrocketed as of late have given those (the "rich")who own such assets a gigantic financial advantage for doing essentially NOTHING. It's a system rigged by Wall St.......

Wall St has serious corruption, but the system itself is not rigged. Many of the middle class have 401k investments that grow for doing essentially nothing, by your definition. I reiterate, the problem is more one of the middle class spending what they have on a substantially higher standard of living, than being extinct.

You need to save a piece, not just try to keep up with the Jones'.

When the middle class was buying boats, they had substantially smaller housing, only one car for the family, no cell phone bill, no DirectTV with NFL package, etc, etc. These things are sucking the life out of the middle class. You drove a few hours to the country for vacation, you didn't fly to the Bahamas with your whole family.

I have a 26 yr old stepson, who has already taken two vacations in the Caribbean with his girlfriend. By that age, out of college, I hadn't gone anywhere on vacation yet. We ate at a restaurant, maybe once per month and got a pizza once per week. The middle class today goes out to eat 3-4 times per week.

The problem is, the new middle class is spending all their money on something other than boats.