[Cymoril]

Hello...!
I very recently bought a Dufour 29 (1979). This is my first "big" ship, since my previous one was a tiny engine-less 4.70.

I have some problems with the engine intake thru-hull. Or rather, with the valve that seems to have sealed itself shut.

Now, boat is on the water, and I have no reasonable way to get it out of there.

How do I go about checking and replacing the valve/thru hull, with the thing on the water...?

Any info, will be highly apreciated.

Thanks a lot,

Sol

 

[smackdaddy]

Hey Cymo - welcome to SN. Someone around here will help you figure this out.

 

[scottyt]

well its tricky if not impossible to do it in the water. but it can be done.

disclaimer do not try this with out many people on board, a large pump handy, etc etc, i nor sailnet will hold no responsibility for any out comes.

get some sealing putty or a wax toilet ring. dive on the boat and plug,clog, or seal up the hole on the out side. then go in the boat and take loose the valve, be easy because if you break the the thru hule you might be taking a trip to the bottom. then replace the valve.

another safer option is to ground the boat at low tide and do the same thing, that way if something does break and go badly you have some time to work on it before it sinks. if you have a large enough tidal swing you can tie to a wall that the water level drops below the thru hull when you are at low tide, while you tied to the wall.

good luck, but your better off paying for a short hall and do the work in the slings if they will let you. if some thing happens then you are perfectly safe

 

[rikhall]

thru hull question

Sol

You ask a good question. Can you tell us a bit more?

1 Do you think the valve was working since you bought the boat?

2 What makes you think it is not working now?

3 It is a valve with a "sink tap like handle" on top, or a valve with a handle with a single lever on top?

4 The kind of engine is not germain, but might help someone with the same set up to answer you. I am "presuming" that it is an inboard engine - is that correct?

This is a great group - someone will be able to help.

Rik

 

[davewild]

Listen to Scottyt. My strong advice would be do not change it in the water. If it must be done try using a soft wood plug(avaiable from chandlery but you should have them on board tied to each through hull fitting that is below or near the water line). I would use a small one that will fit well into the hole and use a hammer to push it in hard. They are normally used from the inside but for this, of course, you would have to be in the water hitting it into the hole.
Be warned though if it goes wrong a lift at the boat yard will seem cheap.

 

[Cymoril]

Okey, thanks so much for the help...!

Of course, I hold no one the least bit responsable. Its advise i'm asking for, and am very happy to be getting some.

scottyt:
Hauling it out of the water is not quite possible right now. I will check for some place where it might be safe to wait for the low tide, that seems a very good idea. One question tho, it does not damage the keel, to gound the boat like that...? Or is there a specific way to go about that...?

rikhall:

1 Do you think the valve was working since you bought the boat?

Yes. I've had the boat for a bit over a month. Water flowed in. Is fact, the sink worked, and it is the same intake.

2 What makes you think it is not working now?

- It went like this: Engine started to reheat a bit. Not much. Only when I revved it up a bit over 2.000. The water pump rotor is fine, so I started checking the intake.
Aparently this was a mistake. As soon as i moved the valve, the thing sealed shut, and the valve turns loose. It was in a very poor condition.

3 It is a valve with a "sink tap like handle" on top, or a valve with a handle with a single lever on top?

- Ok. You've got me there. It looks like a garden handle, really. With rust and all. I think its the second one, with a single lever. The lever turns loose, but the pass is sealed shut.

4 The kind of engine is not germain, but might help someone with the same set up to answer you. I am "presuming" that it is an inboard engine - is that correct?

- Engine is s Nanni Diesel. On-board. N3.21. The engine is in quite good shape. Cant say the same about the boat fittings, tho.

Thanks a lot.

Sol

 

[Cymoril]

Listen to Scottyt. My strong advice would be do not change it in the water. If it must be done try using a soft wood plug(avaiable from chandlery but you should have them on board tied to each through hull fitting that is below or near the water line). I would use a small one that will fit well into the hole and use a hammer to push it in hard. They are normally used from the inside but for this, of course, you would have to be in the water hitting it into the hole.
Be warned though if it goes wrong a lift at the boat yard will seem cheap.

Yes, I'd really like to have it out of the water, and done safely.
The boat is really very far from any shipyard! And the nearest one (i'm talking over 20 hours away) is way over my budget right now. I'm saving up for doing a complete maintenance check early next year.

I REALLY like the idea of having the plugs permanently tied near the hull fittings!! Thats something i will do right away.

Sol

 

[scottyt]

first the valve with a outside type handle is a gate valve, they are a very bad idea. they do fail pretty often, the other type with a lever is a ball valve, its what you want.

most boats can ground pretty safely

first find a soft sandy area with out rocks that is a few feet deeper than your draft. it also needs to be protected from waves if you can. then take your boat and anchor it parallel to shore using 2 anchors with about a foot or more of water under the keel. the more the better if you have the tidal swing. then take a third anchor and take it towards shore and set it. then tie it to a halyard and tighten it. when the boat touches down keep the halyard tight to make sure you lean towards shore. make sure everything in the boat is secure as you will be leaning way over. when the tide is down do the work, make sure you have a way to get to shore and a store near by if you need anything in a hurry.

you also do want a large gas powered pump on board just incase something goes wrong

edit a link with a few pics for ya click here

 

[CrazyRu]

Do you have another intake, for a head for example?

Seal the one you have shut, and place a hose to another valve.
It is temporary solution for sure, but at least you will have a motor running

 

[davewild]

Do you have another intake, for a head for example?

Seal the one you have shut, and place a hose to another valve.
It is temporary solution for sure, but at least you will have a motor running

Great idea. Simple and practical. It will go into the memory in case I ever need it.

 

[Cymoril]

Do you have another intake, for a head for example?

Seal the one you have shut, and place a hose to another valve.
It is temporary solution for sure, but at least you will have a motor running

Dunno. I'll search for it.

 

[Cymoril]

first the valve with a outside type handle is a gate valve, they are a very bad idea. they do fail pretty often, the other type with a lever is a ball valve, its what you want.

most boats can ground pretty safely

first find a soft sandy area with out rocks that is a few feet deeper than your draft. it also needs to be protected from waves if you can. then take your boat and anchor it parallel to shore using 2 anchors with about a foot or more of water under the keel. the more the better if you have the tidal swing. then take a third anchor and take it towards shore and set it. then tie it to a halyard and tighten it. when the boat touches down keep the halyard tight to make sure you lean towards shore. make sure everything in the boat is secure as you will be leaning way over. when the tide is down do the work, make sure you have a way to get to shore and a store near by if you need anything in a hurry.

you also do want a large gas powered pump on board just incase something goes wrong

edit a link with a few pics for ya click here

Wow...!! Thanks for the link..!!
I'll probably have a heart attack seeing my beloved ship lying like a dead fish... But at least it wont sink...!

I think there are a few good spots for doing it around here. Plenty of sandy bottom beaches. I'll check for corals.
Not sure if the tide is so low tho. I'll ask some locals.
The boat is anchored in a mangle lagoon, in Morrocoy National Park, Venezuela. Waters are VERY still.

Sol

 

[rikhall]

Do you have another intake, for a head for example?

Seal the one you have shut, and place a hose to another valve.
It is temporary solution for sure, but at least you will have a motor running

Crazy gives you sound advice.

With a boat your size, there is probably an "out" for the sink and maybe an "in" for water coming into the head.

Both are probably the same size as your frozen "in" for the engine.

If you go that route - be ready to plug the frozen in as soon as you take the hose off of it - it may not be frozen all the way shut.

Best of luck - what is your general (not specific) location - there might be someone we could recommend in the area to look at it for you.

Rik

 

[rikhall]

The boat is anchored in a mangle lagoon, in Morrocoy National Park, Venezuela. Waters are VERY still.

Sol

I am in Canada - Hmmm - Venezuela?? If it is still stuck in February and our temperature is lower than -20 C I might come help!

 

[Cymoril]

Crazy gives you sound advice.

With a boat your size, there is probably an "out" for the sink and maybe an "in" for water coming into the head.

Both are probably the same size as your frozen "in" for the engine.

If you go that route - be ready to plug the frozen in as soon as you take the hose off of it - it may not be frozen all the way shut.

Best of luck - what is your general (not specific) location - there might be someone we could recommend in the area to look at it for you.

Rik

The boat is anchored in a mangle lagoon, inside a national park. Morrocoy. Northwest, Venezuela. (South Caribbean)
Morrocoy - Venezuela Tuya

I've searched for a decent shipyard, but the only one i've heard good things about is quite far, near La Guaira. And they are booked all the way to next year.

Sol

 

[Cymoril]

I am in Canada - Hmmm - Venezuela?? If it is still stuck in February and our temperature is lower than -20 C I might come help!

LOL..!!

Well, we have over 30º C all year round.
Last weekend my GPS registered WATER temperature as being 32ºC.
Its like swimming in soup, really.
;-)

Sol

 

[Cymoril]

Crazy gives you sound advice.

With a boat your size, there is probably an "out" for the sink and maybe an "in" for water coming into the head.

Both are probably the same size as your frozen "in" for the engine.

Rik

Hey..!
Yeah, the sink's "out" is right there, near the intake... I think this might work, at least in the meantime while I fix things up properly.

I really hope to have this al least partially fixed before this year's Regatta in Bonaire

Sol

 

[rikhall]

Hey..!
Yeah, the sink's "out" is right there, near the intake... I think this might work, at least in the meantime while I fix things up properly.

Sol

Make sure you remove the "sink out" hose (maybe put it into a bucket under the sink) and install the "engine in" directly to the thru hull. Don't put a "T there or you could be sucking air from the sink and not water from the ocean.



Rik

 

[xort]

What will you do if the valve snaps off the thru-hull? Not saying it WILL happen but it could happen. Scratch the bronze and see if your scratches show a pinkish metal underneath. If so, you have brittle metal that is more likely to crack under stress.
If you get half way into this process and find you can't fix it, then what?
I'd go with the sink thru-hull source for water until you can get hauled out.

Something else to try. Get a can of PB Blaster or other penetrating fluid that may free up the sticky valve. Spray a little of the fluid on the area and then tap lightly on it to help the fluid penetrate. I had a frozen pumpout deck fitting that took 2 weeks to unfreeze. I sprayed PB Blaster on it almost every day and gave it a few taps. It works fine now.

 

[Cymoril]

What will you do if the valve snaps off the thru-hull? Not saying it WILL happen but it could happen. Scratch the bronze and see if your scratches show a pinkish metal underneath. If so, you have brittle metal that is more likely to crack under stress.
If you get half way into this process and find you can't fix it, then what?
I'd go with the sink thru-hull source for water until you can get hauled out.

Something else to try. Get a can of PB Blaster or other penetrating fluid that may free up the sticky valve. Spray a little of the fluid on the area and then tap lightly on it to help the fluid penetrate. I had a frozen pumpout deck fitting that took 2 weeks to unfreeze. I sprayed PB Blaster on it almost every day and gave it a few taps. It works fine now.

You know, my stomach ties itself in knots just to picture water flowing from a broken thru-hull...

I havent tried to loosen the valve. I thought it was pretty much a permanent thing. It is definitely something safe to try...! That'll be the first thing.

Considering the advice received, and the fact that i'd be fooling around with thing i'm no expert in, I think I'll try to refit the hose in some other opening, even if it means cutting off water supply for the sink. Plenty of water overboard to do the dishes

I do feel like trying to get practical on the careening thing... It is a skill that's bound to come handy!

Sol