[DanKap]

And here they are! Unfortunately these and what I've said so far are probably all I'll have to go on until I get to see the boat on Friday, assuming it's still available.

I've been looking into the 26C, 26S & 26X for the past little bit. On the down side, I'm not exactly drowning in info and differences between the three. On the bright side, it does seem these are more traditional sailboats than powerboats modified for sails, like the M & X models. I'm considering this a good thing. They may not pull water skiers, but my fam already has a boat for that. I'm liking that these three seem well suited to the extra long shaft Suzuki 9.9HP engine that I happen to already have collecting dust.

 

[DanKap]

Here's what I've got so far between the 3.

The 26S is tiller-steered
The 26 X is wheel steered
26S is lighter
26S has 4'8 head clearance in the cabin, but uses a pop top to get 6'1 in the aft of the cabin
26X has 5'10 head clearance (I'm 5'10 without shoes, so I'll be ducking a touch anyway)
26C has a 7'11" beam
26x has 7'10 beam
26c has 1200lb ballast
26x has 1400lb ballast
26c has 28' mast
26x has 31' mast

I'm sure a lot of this changed from year to year, and the stuff above is general info I found, not specific to the year I'm looking at. Aside from the tiller vs. wheel steering and headroom vs. pop-top, I'm not finding a lot of smoking gun type differences.

I don't think I like the collapsable 5 gallon water tank used for fresh water. If there's room in the bilge, I think I'd like to install a traditional plastic fresh water tank and pump.

I'm not done searching by any means, but finding the specific differences between the two has not been easy, and finding problems specific to each (something I'd be more interested in) has been even harder.

 

[sailingdog]

I think that may be a 26s... since it looks like it might have a poptop.

 

[DanKap]

I think you actually may be right! I had been picturing the pop top as canvas for some reason, but I just found these pics of a 1986 26S. Striking resemblance, if I do say so myself.

From the same site, a brochure pic showing the interior. I'd be thrilled to find this kind of room in a 26' sailboat!

They also claim 10-15 minutes for one person to raise the mast and sail away. Considering I'd have to step the mast to get to the marina my parents keep their boat at, which would likely mean doing this really often, that's also really good news. I had figured that to be a major process. If they say 10-15 minutes I might actually be able to do it in real world conditions in 30.

This picture shows, among other things, how the top pops up (bottom left). I'd bet I can plan on replacing the plastic side windows on a boat that's been sitting 4 years. Still, for the asking price I'm willing to deal with that, assuming the title can be sorted out and the structural stuff and sails check out.

Thanks for pointing that out, good eye!

Dan

 

[sailingdog]

The low cabin top and the big square on the cabintop where the sliding hatch is located are both pretty good indicators, IMHO, that she's a 26s. The cabin ain't tall enough to be an X. Could be a 26C, but don't know the headroom in that boat... so don't know how tall the cabin was.

 

[DanKap]

I got the HIN, but it leaves me with some questions.

The first 3 characters are Mac, which means macgregor

The next character is R, which means Mac 25, full interior liner. So apparently the seller was wrong about the model, and it's a Mac 25. Whole new set of research to do now. Or, alternatively, the Hull ID checking site is wrong, which seems less likely.

The next 4 are the hull serial #

Then F8, with F meaning Feb, and 8 being the last digit of the year, which would be 8.

Then it's 86, which would be the model year.

That confuses me here is that the F8 suggests the last digit of the year would be 8, but the 86 on the end suggests it's an 86 (which is what the seller said) making the last digit of the year a 6, not an 8. I appear to be missing something here.

Also, the MACR suggests it's a MAc 25, not a Mac 26. Whole different boat.

Am I missing something here? Perhaps the seller wrote the # wrong? I'll find out for sure tomorrow, but I'd like to know as much as I can for research tonight. I'm a bit puzzled at the moment.

I also need to call the Marine & RV theft bureau to make sure it's eligible for an abandoned title. I'll try this tomorrow AM, but if I have the wrong # that'll be a strike out, at least until I get to the boat and see the HIN for myself.

So, in total the HIN is MACR####F886 where #### is the hull serial no. (Not sure if it would be wise to put the entire thing on the internet).

Any suggestions or input, as always, is appreciated.

Dan

 

[hellosailor]

Dan-
In most states, the only legal way to get the title is for the "warehouse" owner to file a "warehouseman's lien" or "storage lien" against the vehicle, stating that he has been owed so many dollars per day/week/month for storage, that the bill now exceeds a value of ##, and that he has been unable to contact the owner. The exact terms and name of this lien may vary--but if "the guy" is honest about trying to take title and sell the boat, HE has to go through that process, as the "warehouse man", and then the title can be legally transferred TO HIM. That may take some time, so there's no way he can simply "sell the boat" to anyone until that procedure is completed.

Once the title is assigned to him--if it is assigned to him--then he can sell the boat and sign over the title to anyone, on the spot. Just do not assume that you can legally buy the boat AT ALL until AFTER he has the title assigned in his name.

And, obviously, he needs the HIN to file his lien against the boat. If he didn't know that--either he's not aware of the process, or he's stealing someone's boat.

AFAIK, in most states titled property is rarely considered "abandoned". You might want to check with your state, to see just what the options are.

 

[DanKap]

Thanks for the reply. Here's the background, as I understand it. The boats original owner was renting a property from this guy. 4 years ago he up and took off, leaving everything including the boat behind, no forwarding address, no paying bills, etc. The boat has been sitting since.

I did do some research on abandoned boats in MA (the state the boat is in, and was last registered in). It does seem that it can be claimed as abandoned. I'm unsure if I can claim it, or if he has to. Here's the info on how it works in MA
PROCEDURES FOR OBTAINING LEGAL OWNERSHIP OF ABANDONED OR SALVAGED BOATS
http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dle/abandonedproc.pdf

It seems this boat falls into definition A of abandoned, by that law (page 1 of the PDF).

It seems the first step, and the step I plan to take tomorrow once I have the HIN and have inspected the boat, would be to call the Marine Theft Office @ 800-632-8075. If it comes up clean and not needing an inspection there, it seems the next step would be to send a letter to the owners last known address (which is the sellers house, so that's sure to be returned "moved no forwarding address", since that's just what the guy did.)

This process is a big part of tomorrows meeting with the seller, and I plan to learn more when I call the Marine Theft Office with the HIN and explain the situation. Any help, advice or insight you could provide would be most appreciated.

How we're going to handle the title is still in the air. I won't be paying for the boat unless I can title it. I may reach an agreement with the seller where I go through all the claim process, signing a contract with him to pay for the boat if/when I am able to get a title. I'm learning more about this process as time goes on and I learn more about the boat, so like I said I'd really appreciate and welcome any insight or help. It does appear to me, though, that based on the info on the above linked pdf this boat is eligible to be claimed as abandoned.

Even if he has to be the one to claim the title, I still need to inspect the boat and see if I'd be willing to enter a contract agreeing to buy it if he is issued a title. Without a buyer lined up I get the impression the seller is just going to let the boat sit.

I am quite possibly in over my head, and hope to learn more when I make my calls tomorrow. I'm all ears for any input on here in the mean time!

Thanks,

Dan

 

[hellosailor]

Dunno, Dan. Since the boat was stored WITH the knowledge and consent (and presumably for fee) of the property owner--that would appear to make it specifically exempt according to the third line of that document.

I guess it depends on how MA interprets "consent", because the consent apparently was given--and it is just terms have now been exceeded. A bit funny that the "landlord" didn't have any other address or contact information though. And of course, if the registration address comes back to the same location the boat is stored at--the question is, can you abandon a boat at your home adddress? And "home" pretty much inplies "consent" or more, to me.

I expect your marine theft people will have some firm words to say about this. And, if MA registers boats and treats them as "motor vehicles" when they have motors--you may need to go through the DMV as well.

Either way, good hunting!

 

[DanKap]

Thanks, that's a good angle, and one I had not thought of. It will certainly be interesting to see what the marine theft people have to say on the subject. I think one thing is for certain - I won't be bringing cash with me tomorrow. A check, perhaps, and my father since he's in business for himself and in the habit of writing up legally binding contracts (not to mention he taught me everything I know about boats), but no cash.

I don't find it surprising that the guy bailed with no forwarding address, I know a few people who have rental properties and it's not at all uncommon. In fact, the one place I rented I left without a forwarding address (although I did stay my lease, pay all bills and leave on good terms - I just never left an address).

I'll call marine theft before I head down. They may save me a drive.

It'd be disappointing to lose out on this one, it's not every day you find a deal like this. Then again, if I can't get a title it's not a deal at all. It'll take me more time to save up enough $ to buy something in this class at normal prices, but it'd also give me more time to research and get the right boat. Like I said before, I'll take it like it comes. I'm making the transition from power and paddling to sailing one way or the other - it just may not be in time for this season if this deal falls through.

Depending what marine theft has to say, maybe I can get this guy to get a title before selling me the boat. I might even be willing to pay enough extra to cover his expenses in getting the title, if it's in the condition he says.

One thing is for sure, tomorrow should be an interesting day!

 

[sailingdog]

HS makes some good points... However, I'd add that many towns and the state have loosened laws regarding "abandoned" boats, to make it easier for marinas and such to take title of boats that were originally stored with consent, but have exceeded those terms.

A boat that was a paying customer's is only given consent as long as the person has paid his bills AFAIK. If the marina/boatyard can't contact the owner, there is a timeframe in which the boat will sit in limbo, but after that time, the boat will be considered abandoned. In any case, if the owner doesn't respond in a timely fashion and owes storage fees on the boat, the marina/boatyard generally has the right to sell the boat to collect said fees.

BTW, Dan, if since you're in Massachusetts, if you want company when you go to look at the boat, let me know... at least if it is in eastern Massachusetts.

 

[DanKap]

Thanks Saildog. I'm hoping the DMV and marine theft division are open today, and I can get some concrete answers from them. I'd love to meet you and have a second set of eyes looking at the boat, but we're pretty short on notice at this point - I'm looking at the boat today. I'll shoot you a PM in case it happens to be in your back yard, and you want to swing by.

Dan

 

[DanKap]

Well, after the typical runaround one gets when trying to get anything done calling the state, I did get some info. It seems the boat probably is eligible to be considered abandoned, but the only person who can file that claim is the person whose property the boat is abandoned on - there's no channel for me to try to get a title for it. I called the seller back and told him this, and he said he'd look into it a bit more and get back to me. In the mean time, it seems like my search will have to continue. Thanks for all the help here.

 

[Guzzi]

Here's what I've got so far between the 3.

The 26S is tiller-steered
The 26 X is wheel steered
26S is lighter
26S has 4'8 head clearance in the cabin, but uses a pop top to get 6'1 in the aft of the cabin
26X has 5'10 head clearance (I'm 5'10 without shoes, so I'll be ducking a touch anyway)
26C has a 7'11" beam
26x has 7'10 beam
26c has 1200lb ballast
26x has 1400lb ballast
26c has 28' mast
26x has 31' mast

I'm sure a lot of this changed from year to year, and the stuff above is general info I found, not specific to the year I'm looking at. Aside from the tiller vs. wheel steering and headroom vs. pop-top, I'm not finding a lot of smoking gun type differences.

I don't think I like the collapsable 5 gallon water tank used for fresh water. If there's room in the bilge, I think I'd like to install a traditional plastic fresh water tank and pump.

I'm not done searching by any means, but finding the specific differences between the two has not been easy, and finding problems specific to each (something I'd be more interested in) has been even harder.

The big differences between the S model and X and M models is the X and M models are trailerable motorsailors and the S is a traditional water ballasted trailerable sailboat. There really is no comparison between the motorsailors and the traditional sailboats such as the S or D.

The difference between the S and D models is simple: S is for swing keel and D is for daggerboard.

The 9.9 hp engine will push a S or D model just fine.

 

[DanKap]

So, they say all's well that ends well. Turns out the wrong hull ID & model solved the title issue as well - it was the wrong boat! Mac 26 is somebody else's problem, sans title. Mac 25, on the other hand, is mine - legal beagle style. This guy may not be running a boat yard, but he's got a few lying around

Hull looks good, mainsail is in great shape save for some cosmetic stuff, jib is new in a bag. Needs some basic fiberglass work up top, and the wood runners for the sliding top above the door needs to be replaced. Speaking of doors, it needs one made.

Interior is going to need a whole lot of TLC. Carpet needs replacing, cushions need recovering, and if I want a sink or any sort of fresh water system I'm going to need to install it. Also needs some electrical TLC. I think I'll just run new wires for the running and cabin lights, install a bilge pump and stereo, and see what else she needs from there.

She's a fixer upper for sure, but nothing terribly major - I've done more work to power boats in the past. The sails alone have to be worth what I paid for her, so I'm looking forward to getting into fixing her up real nice.

Also, the rudder needs to be reattached and the cable to control the swing keel needs reconnecting or replacing.

Thanks again for all the help here. This should be a fun project from this point forward! I expect to be very busy this winter, and likely most of next summer as well.

 

[Guzzi]

For a little help in finding stuff and advise for your new Mac check out this:

MacgregorOwners.com - Home

 

[pdqaltair]

Also Trailer Sailer has a Mac forum.

Macgregor/Venture Forum - Message Index

 

[DanKap]

Thanks to you both. I've certainly got some learning to do now. Seems some of the hardware for the rigging needs replacing, which is probably the only thing that needs doing that is outside of what I can do. I figure I'll see what I can find online, and worst case bring it to a sail place to see if they can't help me identify what I need and maybe improve some of the missing/broken stuff with better, more up to date stuff. I figure I'll have plenty of questions now - not sure if I should ask them here or start a new thread for the 25, since that's what it is.

 

[DanKap]

Got some pictures up here. I sure could use an owners manual for this thing! I'm looking forward to the glasswork and woodwork, as well as the interior refinishing. Figuring out the pulleys & ratchets for the rigging, as well as the clip type deals etc. that support the mast are going to be a challenge. Anyone know where I could find a manual for this beauty?

Picasa Web Albums - Dan - MacGregor 25

 

[CalebD]

Dan,
Congrats on the new Mac 25'. There are many other folks here (and there) who have owned or still own this model of sailboat.
I would not be surprised if you found an owners manual on the boat somewhere but if you did not you should make another post about the owners manual and I am sure someone has one available on-line.
Is the boat a MacG Venture 25' or just a MacG 25' (not really sure there is a difference, just differences with each years production line)?
MacGregor made the 25's before the 26's (S,D,M,X etc) and most of their owners really enjoyed this trailerable sailboat.
Once you get the title will you tell us what it cost you up front?

It sounds like you got a very good deal.