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Discussion Starter · #41 · (Edited)
Thanks Caleb.
I did find an owners manual, and I'm sure it'll be helpful down the road. Right now I'm still at the stage of figuring out how the rigging works for mast support, etc. Unfortunately the manual doesn't cover that. I had the mast up yesterday with a friend who has done a little sailing just trying to figure some things out, but even though we did get the mast up and stable I think the main thing we learned is that we don't know much! I love projects and learning, so I know I'll get it. Going to be a long road figuring all this out though. Right now my main obstacle is figuring out how the rigging works in regards to stabilizing the mast, controlling boom swing, etc. Going to be hunting my boating buddy network for people with sailing knowledge (unfortunately they're mostly all power boaters) and spending a lot of time on google to start with. Second on the list is fixing the swing keel cable/winch. Have not looked at that much, I'm sure I can get it. The fiberglass work is already underway!

It's a normal 25, not a Venture. I am only going by the vin here, I don't know the difference.

I suppose now that it's done, I can tell the price. I paid $500 boat and trailer. No motor, but I already have a long shaft 9.9 Suzuki that'll make a fine kicker. I figure the mainsail in good condition (solid stitching & canvas, no stich fraying when tested with fingernail, etc) and brand new jib combined with solid and good looking hull and deck made it a deal. It needs work, but nothing I can't handle. As I said, my big concern right now is figuring out the rigging for supporting the mast, controlling boom swing, etc. My post above has pictures showing her. For the price I think I did well.

This may sound backwards, but when starting something new I enjoy getting something that requires a work up front. Allows me to get familiar with it (in this case, my boat) before using it. I have found with other hobbies (power boating, bicycling, motorcycling, RC planes, etc) that the knowledge learned getting something together before being able to use it pays off down the road. For example, in this case I'll learn enough about how everything works and what it does before setting sail that if I have an issue on the water I'll have a better understanding of whatever the problem part does and how it works, and as a result will have a better chance of resolving the issue on the spot at least well enough to continue on, rather than being part of the club that has to call TowBoat US every time something unexpected happens. Of course, I'll have the kicker to help as well, but the point remains.

Sorry for the extra long rambling post, I'm really excited about the new boat and it appears to be showing through my keyboard.

Also, if anyone has one of these boats and would be so kind as to post or show some pictures showing what goes where in regards to supporting the mast, controlling the boom, etc. I'd be most appreciative.

Dan
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
A question about terminology, so I can help myself look like less of a fool as I describe things in this thread. Are the terms the same when on a sailboat vs. a powerboat? I know gunwales remain, but is back deck still correct for the area behind the cabin? Is bow correct for the area that you'd walk on topside toward the bow of the boat still correct? Is "house" correct for the raised area topside between the gunwales that you'd walk across above the cabin, by where the mast meets the boat?
 

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Dan—

I'd highly recommend you pick up a copy of Dave Seidman's The Complete Sailor. It's an excellent book for sailors of all levels, and covers a wide range of sailing terminology, theory, history and technique without being overwhelming. It is the book I generally give to new crew on my boat to read. :) About $15 at your local big book store chain.

Most sailboats don't have an after deck, since the cockpit is there, just aft of the cabin. The cabintop is the section that you walk on between the sidedecks and forward of the cockpit. This usually slopes down to meet the foredeck, just forward of the mast.

The foredeck is the forward portion of the deck that is usually used for handling the headsails, ground tackle, etc. It is often were the anchor locker is located. Often a hatch in the foredeck area, or just aft of the foredeck will allow you to drop headsails or spinnakers down into the v-berth for stowage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Awesome! Thanks for the terminology tips, I'm going to print and practice that stuff until it's second nature (I told you I like to learn!). I'll also hit the bookstore and pick up a copy of that book tomorrow. I imagine I'll read it over and over until I can predict the next line - again, it's how I like to learn things. Foredeck I knew - so used to powerboaters calling it the bow I slipped there. No excuse for that - going to have to imprint this stuff for real now. Part of what gets me wanting to sail so bad is the difference in the people. Too many powerboaters use words like "front, back, left, right and rope" for my liking. I'm really excited to start this new chapter.

Again, thanks for the reccomended reading and the corrections in terminology. Please, correct any mistakes I make as I go on here on the forum, and any other suggested reading is welcome as well.

When I was 11 I passed the USCG auxilary course to get certified to run bigger powerboats, but skipped the sailing course of the test. I think I may take it again next winter, and focus on the sailing part this time (since I'm pretty sure I could pass the power portion again no problem).

Thanks,

Dan
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 · (Edited)
One more question: Any websites anybody could suggest that give a breakdown of sailing terminology? I wouldn't mind something I could print out and start studying tonight, give myself a head start :)

I have found and printed some stuff from the web that should give me a good start, so I'm really only looking for a specific reccomendation that one of you can vouch for - I've got the generic google results covered (which very well may be plenty until I get that book)

Thanks,

Dan
 

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hi sailingdog , you ever see a mac 26 with a fixed keel??? all the mac's i've seen all had swing keel or water balasted?? Tried to send picture of boat but no can do ?????????? Iam an idot when it comes to computer stuff
 

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Hi, Dan.

What you called 'pulleys' with ratchets on either side of the cockpit are winches. Those are for controlling the sheets for the headsail.

The other part you guessed is for controlling the boom (you guessed right), is a block (captive pulley wheel or wheels and the frame that holds them) with a jaw cleat (as you noted). As it's the boom, and the boom is for the mainsail, it's the lower mainsheet block. I expect the main sheet goes from the becket on that block (the separate white rod), through the block on the boom, back through the bottom block, and of course you can then cleat it off.

But yes, get the book. Good luck ! :)
 

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Excellent newbie info here:

All about sailing - Online Sailing Course

The "boats and rigging" tab will take you to a basic glossary of sailboat vocabulary.

An intelligent sailor knows what he knows. A smart sailor knows what he doesn't know. A successful sailor knows what he doesn't know, and knows how to find the answers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Cool, thanks! Learning all along, and loving it. Now I've just got to figure out where everything goes and how it's routed. Hopefully the book helps with that! :) If not, I'm sure I'll be able to recruit a sailor to show me, but I'd like to be able to figure out how to at least rig it on my own. What you've just told me is a definite help.

Anyone know where I could find a diagram showing where all these lines go? Will that perhaps be in the book?

I'm having a hard time picturing the routing as you explain it (due to my ignorance of how these things work, no doubt - no dig on your explanation).

Is the line for the mainsheet cleated to the traditional cleat next to the winch? I had it in my head for some reason that the traditional cleats would be used for dock lines, fenders, etc. and the self-locking type cleat things would be used to secure rigging lines.

Also does the line that raises and lowers the mainsail go through the ring foreward of the winch before heading to the top of the mast? That would make sense, I think. Here's the pic that explains what I'm thinking of. I'm picturing a line attached to the top of the mainsail going through the pulley (block?) at the top of the mast, down through the ring to the right of the picture, around the winch and then cleated to the cleat to the left of the pic.


Of course, I'm getting ahead of myself on all this anyway, as I've yet to figure out the proper way to secure the mast vertically :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Excellent newbie info here:

All about sailing - Online Sailing Course

The "boats and rigging" tab will take you to a basic glossary of sailboat vocabulary.

An intelligent sailor knows what he knows. A smart sailor knows what he doesn't know. A successful sailor knows what he doesn't know, and knows how to find the answers.
Great link, thanks! I've been looking for something like that. That should keep me busy tonight until I get the book, and be a nice tool to use with the book in the future.
 

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Oh yeah, and as far as recommended reading, pick up the entire Don Casey library. It will be the best hundred clams (or thereabouts) you will spend on your old boat, and will either a) save you thousands on projects you NEED to do or b) cost you hundreds on projects that you now just really HAVE to do.

Amazon.com: This Old Boat: Don Casey: Books
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Oh yeah, and as far as recommended reading, pick up the entire Don Casey library. It will be the best hundred clams (or thereabouts) you will spend on your old boat, and will either a) save you thousands on projects you NEED to do or b) cost you hundreds on projects that you now just really HAVE to do.

Amazon.com: This Old Boat: Don Casey: Books
Haha - awesome! Is this something that's going to help me understand the basic prinicples I need to understand to get myself going, or is this for improvements and modifications once I figure out the basics?
 

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I'm having a hard time picturing the routing as you explain it (due to my ignorance of how these things work, no doubt - no dig on your explanation).

Is the line for the mainsheet cleated to the traditional cleat next to the winch? I had it in my head for some reason that the traditional cleats would be used for dock lines, fenders, etc. and the self-locking type cleat things would be used to secure rigging lines.

Also does the line that raises and lowers the mainsail go through the ring foreward of the winch before heading to the top of the mast? That would make sense, I think. Here's the pic that explains what I'm thinking of. I'm picturing a line attached to the top of the mainsail going through the pulley (block?) at the top of the mast, down through the ring to the right of the picture, around the winch and then cleated to the cleat to the left of the pic.


Of course, I'm getting ahead of myself on all this anyway, as I've yet to figure out the proper way to secure the mast vertically :)
The mainsheet goes from the lower mainsheet block, through the mainsheet block at or near the end of the boom, and back to the lower mainsheet block, where you cleat it with the jaw cleat mounted on that block. The mainsheet doesn't go anywhere near the winches at each side of the cockpit.

The rope to raise the mainsail is the main halyard. It also doesn't go anywhere near those two winches. Those and the cleat next to them are for the headsail sheets. I'm not familiar with the Mac 25, but I'm guessing since there's no block and I see no other track for the headsail sheets, that those tracks and the cars on them in this picture, are the fairleads for the headsail sheets. The sheets run from the aft corner of the headsail (the clew), through the car on the fairlead track, round the winch, and are cleated off at that cleat. The car is moved on the track to adjust the sheeting angle.

My guess is that your boat will have the main halyard run from the head of the sail, over the upper sheave (pulley) and be cleated on the mast itself.

But get a sailor to show you, wait till you've looked more comprehensively at the books, or even go and look at some sailboats in the marina that are about the same size or smaller. You'll get it.
 

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IIRC, there were one or two that were prototype boats that had fixed keels. IIRC< the were made as a joint venture with MacGregor and someone else, just to see how well they could get a Mac 26 hull to perform.

hi sailingdog , you ever see a mac 26 with a fixed keel??? all the mac's i've seen all had swing keel or water balasted?? Tried to send picture of boat but no can do ?????????? Iam an idot when it comes to computer stuff
 

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Discussion Starter · #57 ·
OK, I think I have a better understanding of what I'm missing in regards to standing the mast, which seems to be one of the first things I need to figure out.
I have a headstay (which also seems to be designed to hold the jib?) and a backstay, as well as shrouds (cables, in this case) that come from a short distance up the mast to chain plates mounted a couple feet to each side of the base of the mast on the cabintop. They can be seen in this pic.

I appear to be in need of the shrouds that would come from the top of the mast to the spreaders and then down to the deck. I believe those spreaders would attach to the brackets shown in this photo? Can these be line, or will I have to have them made from cable?

Does it make sense the spreaders would be mounted to the mast toward the top, but not right at the top, instead at the same location the headstay mounts? Here's a picture showing where I expect the main sidestays would attach to the mast.

Also, the spreaders do not seem as secure to the mast as I'd expect them to be. This could be the result of damage, or the way they are designed. Either way, they have play to pivot fore and aft. Below is a picture showing the spreaders attached to the mast. Also, there are brackets there that seem like they could be attachment points for more stays. Any ideas?

The part of the spreader where the stay would pass through is also broken. It looks like it could be replaced independently of the spreader itself, and may lend a clue to the more experienced eye if the stay that is intended to pass through it should be line or cable.

And for my last picture-question of this post, I have 2 pulleys (blocks?) at the top of the mast. Would I be correct in assuming one is for the mainsail and the other for the jib?


Again, thanks so much for the help. I feel like I'm making real progress already!

Disclaimer: The tarp is only lying over the mast like that to keep rain out of the cabin for now, I'll be building a wooden frame over the boat before any snow hits, to keep the weight of the snow from bending the spreaders, among other things.

Thanks again,

Dan
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
The mainsheet goes from the lower mainsheet block, through the mainsheet block at or near the end of the boom, and back to the lower mainsheet block, where you cleat it with the jaw cleat mounted on that block. The mainsheet doesn't go anywhere near the winches at each side of the cockpit.

The rope to raise the mainsail is the main halyard. It also doesn't go anywhere near those two winches. Those and the cleat next to them are for the headsail sheets. I'm not familiar with the Mac 25, but I'm guessing since there's no block and I see no other track for the headsail sheets, that those tracks and the cars on them in this picture, are the fairleads for the headsail sheets. The sheets run from the aft corner of the headsail (the clew), through the car on the fairlead track, round the winch, and are cleated off at that cleat. The car is moved on the track to adjust the sheeting angle.

My guess is that your boat will have the main halyard run from the head of the sail, over the upper sheave (pulley) and be cleated on the mast itself.

But get a sailor to show you, wait till you've looked more comprehensively at the books, or even go and look at some sailboats in the marina that are about the same size or smaller. You'll get it.
Thanks! I understand more now, but still not fully. I think looking at some rigged boats will help, but the books and having a sailor look at my boat with me will be the biggest help of all. Still, I'd like to learn and understand as much as I can on my own first, which I appear to be on the way to doing. Also, the less I'm missing when I get a real sailor to take a look at my boat with me, the more I figure he'll be able to show me. An example is the sidestays, I know I'm missing them so I may as well get them.

I can't express enough thanks for all the help I'm getting on this forum. You guys and gals are awesome. I can't believe how much I've learned in the past few days, especially this weekend alone!

Dan
 

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OK, I think I have a better understanding of what I'm missing in regards to standing the mast, which seems to be one of the first things I need to figure out.
I have a headstay (which also seems to be designed to hold the jib?) and a backstay, as well as shrouds (cables, in this case) that come from a short distance up the mast to chain plates mounted a couple feet to each side of the base of the mast on the cabintop. They can be seen in this pic.
Yes, those would be the lower shrouds, however you are missing the cap shrouds.
I appear to be in need of the shrouds that would come from the top of the mast to the spreaders and then down to the deck. I believe those spreaders would attach to the brackets shown in this photo? Can these be line, or will I have to have them made from cable?
The Cap shrouds really should be made of 1x19 stainless steel. Riggingonly.com or another good rigging shop can make them up for fairly little money. I'd highly recommend replacing them all at the same time.
Does it make sense the spreaders would be mounted to the mast toward the top, but not right at the top, instead at the same location the headstay mounts? Here's a picture showing where I expect the main sidestays would attach to the mast.
Spreaders never mount at the same point where the cap shrouds terminate, since the cap shrouds have to go over the spreaders as they go down to meet the chain plates.
Also, the spreaders do not seem as secure to the mast as I'd expect them to be. This could be the result of damage, or the way they are designed. Either way, they have play to pivot fore and aft. Below is a picture showing the spreaders attached to the mast. Also, there are brackets there that seem like they could be attachment points for more stays. Any ideas?
I get the feeling that the spreader bracket is turned 90˚ from what it should be. Spreaders generally don't have to pivot fore-and-aft, but up-and-down. The spreaders should ideally bisect the angle the cap shroud forms with itself, so that the shroud doesn't put any torsional forces on the spreader, merely compression. There may be additional shrouds, especially if the mast has more than one set of spreaders.
The part of the spreader where the stay would pass through is also broken. It looks like it could be replaced independently of the spreader itself, and may lend a clue to the more experienced eye if the stay that is intended to pass through it should be line or cable.

And for my last picture-question of this post, I have 2 pulleys (blocks?) at the top of the mast. Would I be correct in assuming one is for the mainsail and the other for the jib?
I think one of those is for the topping lift and the other for the mainsail. I think the Mac 25 is a fractional rig and the jib halyard comes out a bit further down the mast. Both of those blocks are on the aft side of the mast, so neither would make much sense for a jib halyard.

Again, thanks so much for the help. I feel like I'm making real progress already!

Disclaimer: The tarp is only lying over the mast like that to keep rain out of the cabin for now, I'll be building a wooden frame over the boat before any snow hits, to keep the weight of the snow from bending the spreaders, among other things.

Thanks again,

Dan
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
Yes, those would be the lower shrouds, however you are missing the cap shrouds.
The Cap shrouds really should be made of 1x19 stainless steel. Riggingonly.com or another good rigging shop can make them up for fairly little money. I'd highly recommend replacing them all at the same time.
Good to know. I'll have to do some measuring, get some pricing, inspect the current shrouds (at least the spreader shrouds appear to be in good shape, surprisingly enough) and make an order. I've got a few months before I really have to worry about it, so there's not too much of a rush.

Spreaders never mount at the same point where the cap shrouds terminate, since the cap shrouds have to go over the spreaders as they go down to meet the chain plates.
That makes sense. So the upper mounts by the headstay brackets likely are for the cap shrouds.

I get the feeling that the spreader bracket is turned 90˚ from what it should be. Spreaders generally don't have to pivot fore-and-aft, but up-and-down. The spreaders should ideally bisect the angle the cap shroud forms with itself, so that the shroud doesn't put any torsional forces on the spreader, merely compression. There may be additional shrouds, especially if the mast has more than one set of spreaders.
This is making more and more sense. This mast only has 1 set of spreaders, but that doesn't mean it's not missing any. Then again, all the Mac 25 pics I can find only show 1 set of spreaders, so there's a good chance that's all there's intended to be.

I think one of those is for the topping lift and the other for the mainsail.
Again making sense. I was wondering what would hold the boom up!

I think the Mac 25 is a fractional rig and the jib halyard comes out a bit further down the mast. Both of those blocks are on the aft side of the mast, so neither would make much sense for a jib halyard.
Again making sense. Based on pics I've found on the web I believe you're right about it being a fractional rig. I must have either not noticed the lower block, not knowing what to be looking for, or it's quite possible it's part of the long list of things missing on this particular boat. Either way, I'll find or replace it (or maybe find it and then replace it!).
 
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