[VIKINGBEAR]

In process of rebuilding plumbing system on my 31’ sailboat. Present system has a Y valve between the head and holding tank, which also allows the possibility to discharge overboard via vented loop-macerator pump depending on position of Y valve. The hose from the head is connected at top of holding tank.
The deck pump-out goes directly from the bottom of the holding tank and to the deck pump out. Another hose goes from the bottom of the holding tank via the macerator pump and connects to the overboard discharge line via a Y (not valve) right before the seacock.
The Y valve is a Forespar Marelon valve which is a pain, get stuck, broken handles etc and I am thinking of eliminating it totally by directing all waste directly from the head to the holding tank without any Y or Y valves.
To discharge the holding tank I would use one of the two existing outlets at the bottom of the tank to discharge overboard (when legally) directly to the seacock via vented loop/macerator pump (no Y)
The deck pump-out is already there on a separate line. With this system I would lose the possibility to discharge directly overboard, but when legally to do so can still discharge overboard from the holding tank. No more Y or Y valves.
I have looked and searched the net for a system like this but have not found any systems without a Y valve. Am I missing something?

 

[PorFin]

You might want to bounce this idea off of someone who's in the enforcement field. My gut feeling is that unless you have a verifiable means of preventing overboard discharge, you're taking a big chance on getting fined. That Y-valve separating the macerator and the deck fill can be locked, which meets the requirements; not sure how you'd replicate that at the macerator discharge seacock.

 

[travlin-easy]

If you have the ability to strap the through hull to the closed position using nylon cable ties, then there's no difference than having a Y valve. When you are inside state waters, that Y valve must be disabled in the same manner. I had to replace my Y-valve five years ago, and I purchased one from WM. It has never given me a problem since I installed it five years ago. I took the old one apart, cleaned it thoroughly, and it works like it was brand new, though it has not been installed since the new one was put in place, so it's just another spare that I have on the boat that is loaded with spare everythings.

Good luck,

Gary

 

[RichH]

You might want to check the USCG / ABYC rules about having a bottom drain on a black/grey water tank ... would be similar to the prohibition of such on a fuel tank. If my suspicion is correct, and if such was found upon survey it could affect the underwriting by an insurance carrier.
The real question would be: how does one stop 'dumping' if the bottom drain connected through-hull valve is stuck/broken? As the very least (guess) you'd probably need TWO valves in series for functional and compliance safety and IF a shipboard black water holding tank is allowed to have a bottom drain.

 

[Bill-Rangatira]

try this Installing a Head by Don Casey - BoatTECH - BoatUS
the one that says through tank and have a separate pumpout line

 

[mitiempo]

You might want to check the USCG / ABYC rules about having a bottom drain on a black/grey water tank ... would be similar to the prohibition of such on a fuel tank. If my suspicion is correct, and if such was found upon survey it could affect the underwriting by an insurance carrier.
The real question would be: how does one stop 'dumping' if the bottom drain connected through-hull valve is stuck/broken? As the very least (guess) you'd probably need TWO valves in series for functional and compliance safety and IF a shipboard black water holding tank is allowed to have a bottom drain.

There is nothing illegal about a bottom draining holding tank. Nor is there anything illegal in having a gravity draining holding tank - the simplest system of all. The seacock can be tied shut with a zap strap to meet the CG's locked requirements. Insurance is not an issue.

As far as eliminating the Y valve and other Y it is a good idea. A holding tank that is used often will be easier to pump out and clean than one where the waste has been sitting for a while.

 

[TomMaine]

I removed a Y valve and simplified my holding system several years ago. Our boat has a Nauta bladder holding tank.

Two outlets are in the bladder-one at the bottom, one at the top. Upper outlet:The head pumps a single line directly into the top of the bladder. The line runs above bladder so no back flow from tank.

Lower outlet: Leads to a "T". One side of the T goes directly up to the deck plate. The other side goes directly to an overboard hand pump. That hand pump then leads to the overboard seacock.

That's it.

In use the head goes directly into the tank. When outside the limits, we open the overboard seacock and pump the tank contents.

For pump out: Open the deck cap, connect-pump-bladder flattens-done.

We have no vent on the bladder. And we rarely have sewage onboard for very long as we're off shore and have a ready pump out at the docks and on a pump out boat. Both pump out pumps are large Edson commercial.

I don't reccomend not having a vent, just saying it works. And the valves in the hand pump close and take no damage(several years use). Past the handpump is a vented loop.

I plan to fit a plastic tank soon to replace the bladder for more capacity(nobody likes bladders, it just came with the boat). I 'll vent that tank but keep the plumbing the same, it's simple, minimal leak potential, foolproof.

I was boarded by the CG off the north entrance to the Cape Cod Canal 3-4 seasons ago, and inspected. Because the overboard seacock is always closed(habit), and the handle is loose and stored(in the vanity locker above), I passed with flying colors.

That won't last long!!! Likely the day is coming with growing discharge areas, where more stringent overboard prevention may be the rule. And we're used to discharge laws on the great lakes so I know from experience, my set up would not pass-you have to have NO ability the pump overboard-none, in fresh water no discharge areas.

 

[VIKINGBEAR]

Thanks all for your input. I sail mostly in a No Discharge Zone with the valve on thru hull closed and locked with a zip tie. Not an issue. Totally legal. Pump out to shore unless sailing offshore.

The Y valve handle broke off with the valve stuck in a middle position where some of the waste is pumped to the holding tank, but some of it also to the overboard discharge line where it meets a closed/locked valve at the thru hull. The waste is therefore just sitting in the line between the head and the thru hull. Not a good situation, and is rendering my head useless unless I am offshore. I want to avoid similar situations in the future by eliminating Y valves and Y connections completely.

What baffles me is that I cannot seem to find any drawings or articles describing a system without a Y valve in use by anyone, unless you are only sailing offshore. Have searched the internet for days but to no avail.
This made me wonder if I am missing something?

Why have Y valve and/or Y in the system if it is not needed and can be eliminated by having TWO outlets from the holding tank, one dedicated to deck pump out and the other dedicated to overboard via vented loop/Macerator pump. That was really my question and would appreciate hearing from someone familiar with such a system.
With the valve on the thru hull closed /locked (zip tie, padlock etc) in a No Discharge Zone, there are no legal issues.
We all know the problems with Y valves getting stuck, broken handles etc, so why have them? (yes, I know they should be moved more frequently to work, but........)
Appreciate all your comments.
Thank you.

 

[VIKINGBEAR]

I removed a Y valve and simplified my holding system several years ago. Our boat has a Nauta bladder holding tank.

Two outlets are in the bladder-one at the bottom, one at the top. Upper outlet:The head pumps a single line directly into the top of the bladder. The line runs above bladder so no back flow from tank.

Lower outlet: Leads to a "T". One side of the T goes directly up to the deck plate. The other side goes directly to an overboard hand pump. That hand pump then leads to the overboard seacock.

That's it.

In use the head goes directly into the tank. When outside the limits, we open the overboard seacock and pump the tank contents.

For pump out: Open the deck cap, connect-pump-bladder flattens-done.

We have no vent on the bladder. And we rarely have sewage onboard for very long as we're off shore and have a ready pump out at the docks and on a pump out boat. Both pump out pumps are large Edson commercial.

I don't reccomend not having a vent, just saying it works. And the valves in the hand pump close and take no damage(several years use). Past the handpump is a vented loop.

I plan to fit a plastic tank soon to replace the bladder for more capacity(nobody likes bladders, it just came with the boat). I 'll vent that tank but keep the plumbing the same, it's simple, minimal leak potential, foolproof.

I was boarded by the CG off the north entrance to the Cape Cod Canal 3-4 seasons ago, and inspected. Because the overboard seacock is always closed(habit), and the handle is loose and stored(in the vanity locker above), I passed with flying colors.

That won't last long!!! Likely the day is coming with growing discharge areas, where more stringent overboard prevention may be the rule. And we're used to discharge laws on the great lakes so I know from experience, my set up would not pass-you have to have NO ability the pump overboard-none, in fresh water no discharge areas.

Thanks Tom. This is what I have been looking for. With two outlets in the holding tank for discharges, one for deck pump-out, the other for overboard via vented loop, one could also eliminate the T?
By the way I am cruising in Florida NDZ and we are still allowed to have a thru hull as long as it is locked unless offshore. At least for now......

 

[TomMaine]

Thanks Tom. This is what I have been looking for. With two outlets in the holding tank for discharges, one for deck pump-out, the other for overboard via vented loop, one could also eliminate the T?
By the way I am cruising in Florida NDZ and we are still allowed to have a thru hull as long as it is locked unless offshore. At least for now......

But where does your head empty into the tank?

All I really am saying is, a "T" can replace a Y valve, in most instances. As both the overboard discharge, and the deck outlet have to drain-suction from the bottom(or top with standpipe), they can be combined via a "T".

This means the Deck plate and the hand pump operate as shut offs-when pumping overboard or pump-out(hope this makes sense ) In my case, a Y valve was redundant, expensive, tedious and stinky.

The other 1 1/2" tank outlet-top, will be the in-flow from the head pump.

 

[VIKINGBEAR]

The manual Raritan PHII head empties directly in to the holding tank via a 1 1/2" hose that goes into the top of the tank. The two outlets are at the bottom of the tank. By having two outlets I do not think I need a Y or a T but can only pump overboard via the holding tank.

 

[TomMaine]

Ah! You have 3 - 1 1/2"outlets, so I think you're right.

 

[knuterikt]

My tank is installed without any Y's.
My tank is custom built with
Inlet at the top
Two vent pipes
Pump out through a stand pipe from the top of the tank (easier install this way)
Gravity discharge through a outlet at the bottom of the tank, seacock is the only valve to close of discharge.

In Sweden new discharge rules will be in effect from this spring.
They have published some documentation (in Swedish) http://www.transportstyrelsen.se/gl...system-_fritidsbatar_kostnad_konvertering.pdf

This pic i stolen from this document

 

[VIKINGBEAR]

Correct. Three 1 1/2" outlets in tank. One at top for head to discharge into tank and two at bottom for discharge holding tank either to pump out or overboard via vented loop/ macerate pump. Sorry I was not clear about that. Think this may even be better than a T system. Thanks your replies. Much appreciated.

 

[Don L]

Why have Y valve and/or Y in the system if it is not needed and can be eliminated by having TWO outlets from the holding tank, one dedicated to deck pump out and the other dedicated to overboard via vented loop/Macerator pump. That was really my question and would appreciate hearing from someone familiar with such a system.
.

I don't have any Y-valves. everything flushes into the holding tank either is deck pumped out of once out far enough is pumped overboard.

The boat I have before had a Y-valve that in two years I never moved. It was just less trouble to pump the tank than screw around with the valve.

 

[Gladrags1]

I would eliminate the Y valve and plumb straight to the holding tank. If you are in an area that permits overboard discharge then pump out using a macerator T-Ed off the bottom of the tank.

Tod


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[VIKINGBEAR]

My tank is installed without any Y's.
My tank is custom built with
Inlet at the top
Two vent pipes
Pump out through a stand pipe from the top of the tank (easier install this way)
Gravity discharge through a outlet at the bottom of the tank, seacock is the only valve to close of discharge.

In Sweden new discharge rules will be in effect from this spring.
They have published some documentation (in Swedish) http://www.transportstyrelsen.se/gl...system-_fritidsbatar_kostnad_konvertering.pdf

This pic i stolen from this document

Knut Erik, tusen takk. Unfortunately my tank is low in the hull, and must be pumped. Based on the comments received here, The more I think about it the more it makes sense for me to eliminate the Y and the Y valve.
The Swedish article is from 2005 and appears to restrict all overboard discharge for all boats, and only pump ashore. If that is the case you do not even need a thru-hull.That is the same system here in the Florida Keys, however when sailing off shore it is allowed to pump overboard. The Swedish paper did not seem to differentiate between sailing offshore or coastal? Interesting. Heia Norge!

 

[blt2ski]

I had a Y valve when I first hooked up the tank. Previous owner never used the tank in the first twenty years of operation. Later I removed the Y valve, and went straight to the tank. I have a manual pump I can still use where and when legal to do a direct overboard pumpout. Otherwise, my marina and many others here in the salish sea have pump outs. The much simpler method frankly. If one's boat is for the most part not going to be off shore far enough to dump over board, One could remove this part and be quite fine IMHO.

Marty

 

[knuterikt]

Knut Erik, tusen takk. Unfortunately my tank is low in the hull, and must be pumped. Based on the comments received here, The more I think about it the more it makes sense for me to eliminate the Y and the Y valve.
The Swedish article is from 2005 and appears to restrict all overboard discharge for all boats, and only pump ashore. If that is the case you do not even need a thru-hull.That is the same system here in the Florida Keys, however when sailing off shore it is allowed to pump overboard. The Swedish paper did not seem to differentiate between sailing offshore or coastal? Interesting. Heia Norge!

The new rules in Sweden will be active from April 2015 Recreational Craft - transportstyrelsen.se
The no discharge zone is 12 Nautical miles out, I think it's the same for all the Baltic states.

I'm based in Norway and we don't have the same rules - but it will probably change. I need to be able to get the stuff out when sailing offshore.

 

[MickMeck]

Thanks all for the info. I too do not see the need for a Y valve. It adds more hose and joints that can fail. I am rebuilding my system so I will go from my head to the tank. The tank has a top discharge for pump outs and a gravity feed on the bottom. I think the real question was never answered though =- why are Y valves even there when you can easily discharge from the holding tank?