[DaveC]

Hi, I am new to this forum and to sailing. The purpose of this post is to get a sense of the sailing communities Top three favorite family cruisers, ranked in order to help me and my young family buy our first boat. I want to know: what you like, what you don't like, how easy is it to maintain (what that entails), is it easily single-handed, ideal sail repertoire, frequent problems or costs associated with the boat and which type of family cruiser you would recommend to new sailors in the great lakes (Ontario, Canada)

A few details about us include:

• We are in our 30's and have a 1 year old at home w plans to have another in the coming years
• We have done Adult learn to sail certificate through CANSail Academy, Basic Keele boat cruising, sailing 26 ft Sharks.
• We have been on friends sailboats over the past 2 summers, only been on C&C's (36ft,30 ft), were looking for a 30 ft cruiser (seems like a better entry level size)
• Only experience on Lake Ontario, Kingston region and throughout the 1000 islands
• We are keen learners and have joined a yacht club, and have a slip for 2021 that can accommodate 30 ft LOA, 10 ft beam, but DONT HAVE A BOAT!

I am posting this for help in our 'boat hunt'. We plan to mostly do day sails throughout lake Ontario with a few overnights on the lake, and maybe once our confidence builds, week long trips throughout eastern great lakes. I realize having a young family and learning to sail along with buying our first boat is a tall order, but its something we are prepared to take on. Any suggestions or feedback would be appreciated.

Dave

 

[Minnewaska]

The good news is, for weekend sailing and the occasional week's vacation, you're not limited at all. Be sure to consider that the kids get bigger, fast.

 

[JimsCAL]

The Catalina 30 is the most popular boat in that size. And lots of other choices. Like ODay 30, C&C 30 mk2, etc. Is 10 ft beam a hard limit?

 

[Arcb]

I think what you get will be highly dependent on budget and what is locally available. The availability of quality used boats in Eastern Ontario seems pretty thin and the prices high right now.

My wife, kids and I were batting around the idea of getting a small Keelboat ~26 ft to keep in a slip in Eastern Ontario for the season just last night because our trailer sailing season was skunked last year. I couldn't find a single ~26 ft boat in all the local classifieds that I thought was worth further investigating.

I couldn't recomend a single brand, so much is dependent on condition, price, availability. My personal preference, budget permitting, would be for a more modern design with ample beam, freeboard, swim platform and if you are in the 1000 islands, which it sounds like you may be, reasonably shallow draft (5 feet or less).

 

[DaveC]

The Catalina 30 is the most popular boat in that size. And lots of other choices. Like ODay 30, C&C 30 mk2, etc. Is 10 ft beam a hard limit?

No 10 ft is not a hard limit. Do you have other recommendations in mind?

 

[DaveC]

I think what you get will be highly dependent on budget and what is locally available. The availability of quality used boats in Eastern Ontario seems pretty thin and the prices high right now.

My wife, kids and I were batting around the idea of getting a small Keelboat ~26 ft to keep in a slip in Eastern Ontario for the season just last night because our trailer sailing season was skunked last year. I couldn't find a single ~26 ft boat in all the local classifieds that I thought was worth further investigating.

I couldn't recomend a single brand, so much is dependent on condition, price, availability. My personal preference, budget permitting, would be for a more modern design with ample beam, freeboard, swim platform and if you are in the 1000 islands, which it sounds like you may be, reasonably shallow draft (5 feet or less).

Thanks for the thorough response. Yes, budget, price and Availability is becoming an issue (mostly the availability). I can't believe there is not one Catalina 30 available in Ontario (according to yacht world)... this supposed to be one of the most popular boats on the market!
I don't have much experience cursing the 1000 islands. What would you consider be a comfortable draft? Do you have specific boats in mind for this region? If so, how would u rank them?

 

[Arcb]

I found at least one Catalina 30 in Ontario. It strikes me as being quite a bit for a 30 year old 30 ft boat, but I haven't shopped in that size range for quite a few years so who knows. Catalina30 MkII 1990 Sailboat | Sailboats | City of Toronto | Kijiji.

Several parks Canada docks in the area have a maximum draft limit of 60 inches, so our last 3 boats have been 4ft10 or less, I personally wouldn't go deeper.

I don't have any specific 30 ft boats in mind. I took a quick look through Ontario Kijiji to see if there was anything that caught my attention, but there was nothing that stood out.

 

[JimsCAL]

No 10 ft is not a hard limit. Do you have other recommendations in mind?

No, just that newer boats in the 30 ft range may have a beam a bit over 10 feet. You might also tell us what the budget range is.

 

[Ninefingers]

Catalina 30 would be my first choice. It has a nice big cockpit for lounging.

A CS 30 is another option. Better built than a Catalina, just a rock solid boat, but the cockpit is certainly smaller. They are generally very well priced.

At a guess, I would say your budget is around $35,000 Canadian?

 

[MarkofSeaLife]

In that area there must be a million old 28 to 30 foot boats used for racing and now, trashed, are listed low price.

Maybe one like that that you can trash... bump into docks, run aground, rip a sail... really learn how a boat works without having to be careful of the polish.

And then in a year or 2 you will know whats a good boat to move up to, sell this boat cheap and move on.

 

[emcentar]

As others have said, there's no one-size-fits-all answer to this question. Make a list of what you need (maximum draft, interior height, sleeps x, full bath?) and what you want (sugar scoop transom, large cockpit, etc) and come up with a budget. Then look at the best condition boats that meet your criteria locally.

There's two schools of thought on first boat buying: (1) buy a cheap boat now since you don't know what you want anyway and you'll learn as you go (2) spend more for a better condition boat that you can sail more and work on less. I'd say since you have one small baby and another on the way I would go for (2) unless your wife has the patience of a saint.

One last thing: I can't imagine handling a toddler on a sailboat, much less two! Good luck and I'd love to hear how it goes.

 

[VIEXILE]

Pearson 10M. Less money, go faster. A good survey would be in order. Go to wind like a witch, and balanced.

 

[danvon]

Catalina 30 is certainly a great pick in that size range. They're easy to handle, sail very well and I doubt there is another 30 that has the space below that they do. Catalina is still around & lots of information on the bots is readily available. Do look for a diesel over gas if at all possible.

Having said that, there were quite a few boats made for that ind of market. You might also look at Ericsons, Cals, and O'Days, among others. In an older boat condition is really the most important thing. And the second most important. And the third most important. Not every boat (to put it mildly) has been well maintained & that is a huge factor in how much $$ and effort it will take to keep it up & sail it. Be sure you get a good survey before closing any deal.

 

[danvon]

As others have said, there's no one-size-fits-all answer to this question. Make a list of what you need (maximum draft, interior height, sleeps x, full bath?) and what you want (sugar scoop transom, large cockpit, etc) and come up with a budget. Then look at the best condition boats that meet your criteria locally.

There's two schools of thought on first boat buying: (1) buy a cheap boat now since you don't know what you want anyway and you'll learn as you go (2) spend more for a better condition boat that you can sail more and work on less. I'd say since you have one small baby and another on the way I would go for (2) unless your wife has the patience of a saint.

One last thing: I can't imagine handling a toddler on a sailboat, much less two! Good luck and I'd love to hear how it goes.

On option (2), you will also save money in the long run. It's much cheaper to pay the last guy a fraction of his upgrade costs than to do them yourself at full price.

 

[DaveC]

I like you 2 schools of thought @emcentar. I would say we would likely be looking at option 2 aha. I don't work in the trade industry but am able to to small DIY projects . I find trades people have a 'handy ness' about themselves where they can repair and fix things easily. For me it's a bit daunting. My prices range is $20-25 CAN dollars (USD <20 K). I noticed @danvon mentioned Ericsson, cals, and odays... what would be the big differences in these boats compared to say a Catalina or C&C? I don't know much about them and how they handle, how they are rigged, and what the saloon layout is like comparatively? I've scene pictures but mostly looking for experienced sailors who have been on these boats and can provide me with experience based feedback.
Cheers to all the feedback so far, quite helpful!
D

 

[VIEXILE]

Yeah. You would like it and you could steal it. Pop in a used diesel if you have a problem with gas engine. Singlehand easy. I won singlehand races with mine, and it was a rough old bird. Check all stanchions for deck integrity. Check aft bridgedeck bulkhead for integrity. Sail fast. 1975 Pearson 10M Cruiser/Racer for sale - YachtWorld

 

[emcentar]

I like you 2 schools of thought @emcentar. I would say we would likely be looking at option 2 aha. I don't work in the trade industry but am able to to small DIY projects . I find trades people have a 'handy ness' about themselves where they can repair and fix things easily. For me it's a bit daunting. My prices range is $20-25 CAN dollars (USD <20 K). I noticed @danvon mentioned Ericsson, cals, and odays... what would be the big differences in these boats compared to say a Catalina or C&C? I don't know much about them and how they handle, how they are rigged, and what the saloon layout is like comparatively? I've scene pictures but mostly looking for experienced sailors who have been on these boats and can provide me with experience based feedback.
Cheers to all the feedback so far, quite helpful!
D

In that price range you can afford to be picky and find a nicely maintained 80s or 90s era 28-30 footer. Really, as davon points out - you cannot stress enough the importance of finding a well-maintained boat. It's probably the most important factor when buying a 30-40 year old boat.

The next most important factor is buying the right boat for the right water. You'll want a shoal draft for the 1000 islands area, I'll bet. Ontario and Erie have a lot of light wind days in the summer, and westerly wind - you want a boat that moves upwind well I think. So stay away from blue water boats, unless you want to be using the engine all the time. But there are no hard and fast rules here - I know plenty of people here on the Chesapeake which has plenty of light wind who have full-keel boats and when the wind picks up they are so happy and I'm putting two reefs in the sail.

Catalina, Ericsson, Cal, Oday, C&C all make some good boats. With the kids I'd want to add something like a Beneteau 311 to your list (nice sized cockpit, furling main for short handing, sugar scoop transom for getting kids into the dinghy) but these are mostly newer and out of your price range. And some of the newer Catalinas also have these features (not sure when sugar scoop transoms start appearing but you don't see many on 80s era boats)

 

[Arcb]

At $20-25k for a 30 ft boat you are likely looking at a boat from the 80s. Which is fine, I think a lot of us are sailing boats from the 80s.

I think Cal, Oday, Catalina, Hunter are all going to be reasonably similar at that age. I would focus more on condition, features and how its fitted out. That age, and location also opens you up to all the Canadian Manufacturers which mostly went out of buisiness in the late 80s; Tanzer, Mirage, C&C, Aloha etc. They're all sloop rigged general purpose family/couples sailboats. Pay attention not only to when the boat was designed, not just when it was built. There are lots of boats designed in the 60s that were still being built in the 80s. They may not represent the best bang for the buck.

Sailing with a toddler is fine. We sail with a 6 and 2 year old. Sailing is a great family sport.

 

[chall03]

Short answer just about any boat limited by the amount of money you are willing to fork out will do the job.

Given you are new to sailing though, it is your first boat and you have a young family I would point you in the direction of popular, known designs and suggest you find an example in as good a condition as you can as this removes some of the boat dramas and gives you options.

Take it from someone who did a full refit on a 35ft cruising boat with a 6 month old, you want a boat that is low maintenance, fun and easy to sail for the family. If you & they love sailing, you have the option to sell the boat easily and upgrade. If you or they hate sailing you sell the boat easily and take up golf. Along the way you learn all the wonderful things that come with owning a boat. Plus the more you sail, the more you guys figure out what your style as family sailors is and what you actually want in a boat.

My other advice would be to think about how easy the boat will be to sail single handed. I have two kids and we are long distance cruising on a 42ft boat. We are setup so that either my wife or I can sail the boat at any given time. Sure you can be purists about these things, but autopilots, furlers and windlasses all take the pressure off.

 

[DaveC]

I love the final line aha, whatever makes the job 5-10% easier (furler, self tailing winches, windlass etc) is worth it’s weight in gold when you have a young family aboard.