[mphoppe]

Last spring I was in pursuit of gennaker solution to boost the downwind capability of First LIght, our 2004 PSC 31. The short version is I wanted a clean solution to maintain the "lines" of the bow, and it had to be single handed capable. I was working with my local sail guy who is part of our club in Oceanside to validate the design and helping a rookie with equipment and sail selection.

I ended up with a Quantum 2.5 that had been used once in a race out of a loft in Michigan and the Selden GX-10 furling system. I designed and built the bowsprit additions to make it all work.

We make 7 knts in 12knts of wind...sort of says it all. Finished pics in detail here: furling system. I designed and built the bowsprit additions to make it all work. We make 7 knts in 12knts of wind...sort of says it all. Finished pics here: First Light Projects - mikephotos (smugmug.com)

 

[flee27]

I am going through the same thing on my boat. Trying to figure out how to add a "code zero" type of sail of a furler. You idea is great and looks like it met you design goals. Good job.

Foster

 

[mphoppe]

Thanks for the kind words! I just saw someting, I think it was from North Sails, last week you might want to look at. It is a sail design that eliminates the torsion cable of the Seldon type system by incorporating a lighter structure into the sail itself. Probably a simpler design, but combined components might mean replacing both and eliminates the used market for sails. My 2.5 was a $3500 sail that I bought for $900 used once. You just have to make sure your sail dimensions all line up to work with the torsion cable.

 

[SanderO]

Last spring I was in pursuit of gennaker solution to boost the downwind capability of First LIght, our 2004 PSC 31. The short version is I wanted a clean solution to maintain the "lines" of the bow, and it had to be single handed capable. I was working with my local sail guy who is part of our club in Oceanside to validate the design and helping a rookie with equipment and sail selection.

I ended up with a Quantum 2.5 that had been used once in a race out of a loft in Michigan and the Selden GX-10 furling system. I designed and built the bowsprit additions to make it all work.

We make 7 knts in 12knts of wind...sort of says it all. Finished pics in detail here: furling system. I designed and built the bowsprit additions to make it all work. We make 7 knts in 12knts of wind...sort of says it all. Finished pics here: First Light Projects - mikephotos (smugmug.com)
View attachment 138479 View attachment 138480 View attachment 138481

Finished pic shows some chinzy 1/2" plywood which is not shown on the shop pic. Seems unnecessary and looks bad? Why? A single stainless steel plate would look better and would probably be stronger. It could be welded to the tubing. I presume you needed a flat surface for the "pad eye"... but this could have been a "bow eye" which come in various gauges.

Work looks beautifully done.

 

[mphoppe]

Finished pic shows some chinzy 1/2" plywood which is not shown on the shop pic. Seems unnecessary and looks bad? Why? A single stainless steel plate would look better and would probably be stronger. It could be welded to the tubing. I presume you needed a flat surface for the "pad eye"... but this could have been a "bow eye" which come in various gauges.

Work looks beautifully done.

"Chinzy plywood" is the prototype mock up to get all the dimensions correct and check for cable interference...trust me, you don't want to cut that 3/8" 316 stainless twice when you are doing it by hand! For various reasons I did not want to weld this including the difficulty (need s pro, I'm not) of welding thick plate to relatively thin SS tubing. I am a manufacturing engineer so was working within my known resources...

 

[SanderO]

"Chinzy plywood" is the prototype mock up to get all the dimensions correct and check for cable interference...trust me, you don't want to cut that 3/8" 316 stainless twice when you are doing it by hand! For various reasons I did not want to weld this including the difficulty (need s pro, I'm not) of welding thick plate to relatively thin SS tubing. I am a manufacturing engineer so was working within my known resources...

my bad... I didn't realize this was a mock up.

 

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Hey mphoppe:
Very nice solution and very nice work.

I fly an asymmetrical spinnaker off of a turning block attached to the anchor chock forward of the pulpit. It is a pain to tack especially single handed. Though it will do at least 6 knots in 12 knots of wind, I am looking to getting it down before wind(s) increase to 14 knots. It is really ugly dousing it in over 10 knots of wind, again single handed.

Super post, Thanks.

regards charlie
PSC 34 Windrunner

 

[SanderO]

What is the problem "tacking" the chute?
I use two sheets and when I turn thru the wind the sail is blanketed by the main and I hall in the former lazy sheet and then continue to the course and gybe the main as need be.

 

[SchockT]

Thanks for the kind words! I just saw someting, I think it was from North Sails, last week you might want to look at. It is a sail design that eliminates the torsion cable of the Seldon type system by incorporating a lighter structure into the sail itself. Probably a simpler design, but combined components might mean replacing both and eliminates the used market for sails. My 2.5 was a $3500 sail that I bought for $900 used once. You just have to make sure your sail dimensions all line up to work with the torsion cable.

What you are referring to is a "bottom-up" furler as used on Code Zero type sails. It is not the same animal as the "top-down" furlers that are used on asymetric spinnakers. The one does not replace the other, it is simply a different system for a different type of sail. In fact most furlers can serve dual purpose. If you added a code zero to your inventory you could detach your furled spinnaker, and attach the code zero with it's internal luff rope to the same furling system.

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[flee27]

Thanks for the kind words! I just saw someting, I think it was from North Sails, last week you might want to look at. It is a sail design that eliminates the torsion cable of the Seldon type system by incorporating a lighter structure into the sail itself. Probably a simpler design, but combined components might mean replacing both and eliminates the used market for sails. My 2.5 was a $3500 sail that I bought for $900 used once. You just have to make sure your sail dimensions all line up to work with the torsion cable.

Would love to find a deal like yours. I have been looking around at used sail online and they either aren't the right size for me or they are asking as much as new sail. Currently looking at anout $5K for sail and furler setup. Ouch....'

Foster

 

[SchockT]

Would love to find a deal like yours. I have been looking around at used sail online and they either aren't the right size for me or they are asking as much as new sail. Currently looking at anout $5K for sail and furler setup. Ouch....'

Foster

I found a pretty good deal....was just about to pull the trigger on a brand new $3500 asym when a fellow racer mentioned he had a sail that might work. Turned out it was a near new Evolution A2. He had sold the boat it came off and it was taking up space in his garage. Got it for $500, and it cost $200 more to have it cut to fit the furler.




Race boats are going to be the most likely source of that kind of bargain.

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[mphoppe]

What you are referring to is a "bottom-up" furler as used on Code Zero type sails. It is not the same animal as the "top-down" furlers that are used on asymetric spinnakers. The one does not replace the other, it is simply a different system for a different type of sail. In fact most furlers can serve dual purpose. If you added a code zero to your inventory you could detach your furled spinnaker, and attach the code zero with it's internal luff rope to the same furling system.

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Nope, I just looked it up...it's not a code zero and it is top down furling...it will be interesting to sort thru the "marketing" benefits versus reality, but if I were doing it all over right now, I'd be looking at this very closely...
Cruising Downwind: The Helix Furling Gennaker | North Sails

 

[mphoppe]

my bad... I didn't realize this was a mock up.

No worries! There is a full series of the finished, installed hardware here:
First Light Projects - mikephotos (smugmug.com)

 

[SchockT]

Nope, I just looked it up...it's not a code zero and it is top down furling...it will be interesting to sort thru the "marketing" benefits versus reality, but if I were doing it all over right now, I'd be looking at this very closely...
Cruising Downwind: The Helix Furling Gennaker | North Sails

Interesting. It looks more like a nice improvement mainly meant for code sails. All of their demo videos feature them on catamarans and high performance monohulls, both of which push their apparent wind further forward than your average cruising monohull ever would. Definitely a close reaching sail. I don't think it would replace a proper asymetric spinnaker when it comes to off the wind performance.

I would be curious to see how the Helix cord manages to transmit the torque to the top swivel. I can't see how they can truly call it "top town" when the entire luff is rotating simultaneously. It looks like it furls more like a conventional genoa to me.

It definitely looks like something I will seriously consider when the time comes to add a Code Zero to my inventory.


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