[Barquito]

I'm looking to move up from our Catalina 22 to something that would be safer to cross Lake Michigan. I would like to keep costs down by stepping the mast and trailer launching the boat in the spring and recovering in the fall my self. So far, it looks like the Pacific Seacraft 25 would be my leading contender; moderate draft, well-built, tabernacle mast step (I think).

The limitations (other than price) are that I would need to find a boat that has at least a yard trailer, moderate draft, and mast that can be stepped by two people and an A-frame, probably fixed keel (tired of dragging weeds around on my keel cable).

What else should go on my list?
PSC25, Cape Dory25D...?

 

[saildork]

Hey Barquito, Sail that C22 across the lake. You might have a BFS to report on... if you make it, that is.

I would give you a hard time about moving on from your C22, but I'll probably do the same one of these days. Clearing weeds from the cable does tend to be a large sized PITA, though. I had to go overboard at start of a race once to clear my cable. Probably the only time a boat started a race hove-to with the skipper swimming around under the boat.:laugher :laugher

Good luck on your search.

Pat

 

[casioqv]

Catalina 25 perhaps?

How rough does it get on Lake Michigan? I think the C22 can be pretty tough if set up properly- storm sails, good rigging, all hatches sealed and battened down properly, etc.

 

[SeanRW]

ISo far, it looks like the Pacific Seacraft 25 would be my leading contender; moderate draft, well-built, tabernacle mast step (I think).

I'm Canadian and I've heard the phrase TABERNAC used quite extensively in Montreal while in school but never explicitly in reference to a mast.

For those of you who are "French Canadian challenged" it's rough english equivalent would be "F***ing Mast"

Just sharing the joys of official bi-lingualism with the sailing community

 

[johnnyandjebus]

Hey

You might consider the contessa 26. It meets some of your requirements but not all.
On the plus side
- a very safe boat that will handle great lake conditions.
- Price, here in Canada a well maintained co26 will run you about 10-15,000$
- small enough to be handled by 1 - 2 people, including mast stepping(on deck not on keel)
- She will always be one of the prettiest boats in the harbour
- given the fact that she was built in Ontario there are plenty used co26's to be found on the great lakes

on the neg side
- mine is stored on a trailer and quite tow-able but I would not want to launch her via the trailer. She weighs in at about 5400 pounds with a full keel and relatively deep draft for her length
- what you get in safety you lose in comfort, she is small by today's standards with well less that 6 foot headroom
- the most popular engine is a 7.5 hp ferryman, very reliable but vibrates like crazy and parts can be hard to find.

For more info on the boat check out co26.com
(sorry I can't include a link to the site as this is my first post on sailnet and the site will not allow me to embed links in my postings just yet.)



Good luck in your search,
John

 

[mitiempo]

The Norsea 27 is long keel, tough, available in centre and aft cockpit versions and trailerable. Nor'Sea 27
Brian

 

[bobmcgov]

Compac 23 might be fun.

 

[patrickrea]

I'll chime in too. The Pacific Seacraft is a nice boat and would do the job easily. The other comment above about the Contessa 26 is right on but the price is more likely to be LOWER than that. Another couple to consider are the Continental 25 (almost identical to the Contessa) and the Grampian 26. These are all classic, guaranteed to get you there, older design. Your Catalina is quicker.

For that matter you could buy a Shark, a Northstar 500, a C&C 25, a Mirage 26, a Hughes 26 or a Nonsuch 26. These are also pretty bulletproof designs. The C&C, Mirage and Northstar are faster, the Nonsuch is pure simplicity and the Shark is a Shark, heavy but surfable (trust me I know, that was concusion #3 involving a spinnaker pole).

Anyone of these boats can be had for under US$12,000 but not one will have been built after 1980 with the exception of the Nonsuch. They just can't build a decent small boat nowadays that can handle a rough ride in comfort.

 

[Barquito]

Thanks for the great ideas so far. I have seen guys with about 3'6" of draft launch from a trailer at the ramp nearby. I think 4' might be difficult (Contessa 26). The NorSea 27 looks interesting. Any idea about how many are aft cabin vs. aft dinette, and availability in the Great Lakes area?

It looks like most boats of this size have deck stepped masts, and if they don't have tabernacle plates something could be fabricated that would allow raising mast without the use of a crane.

I might have trouble towing some of these with my Jeep (5000# max). Maybe I should get my daughter an old F350 pickup for her 16th birthday.

 

[Barquito]

BTW, the previous owner said he took the C22 accross Lake Michigan and back. He had to motor all the way back! But, I have been told that the waves on the Lakes can build up some and have a very short period for their height. Midwestern T-storms can be strong and unpredictable.

 

[defrich]

trailerable

I've seen Lake Erie go to blue water style waves quick time from calm. Your pictures of the turmoil are quite informative.
As to a trailerable sailboat for the lake. I have just purchased a 26M from MacGregor ( no personal info as of yet, it gets here ( Long Island ) in 9 days ( but who's counting )). You can check the MacGregor site for a video of a 26M in Gale conditionds. Trailer weight is under 3000 pounds.

Blue Skies...Richard

 

[jephotog]

Not going to tow them with a Jeep

Before this thread spins out of control into a Macgregor bash fest, let me comment.

You might want to check out John Vigors 20 small boats to take you anywhere and add an Albin Vega and International Folkboat to your list. I am looking for a boat in a similar category to you and know your constraints. I have a V-8 explorer and probably have a slightly larger towing capacity than you and know of no boat in this category that will be towed comfortably by anything less than a 1/2 ton pickup with a 3/4 ton recommended. Figure aroun 5-6 thousand pounds for the boat, 7-8 thousand on the trailer.

Also concider this boat while being on a trailer is not trailerable. It will take a major effort to get this thing in the water and ready to sail figure 2+ hours. Not something you want to drop into the lake for an afternoon sail. Other thoughts may be a Montgomery 17 or a ranger 23, both light enough to tow, and capable sailors.

 

[mitiempo]

Here's a link to James Baldwin's site - the section on choosing a small capable boat for offshore use. Atom Voyages | Voyages Aboard the Sailboat Atom - Good Old Boats List - choosing a small voyaging sailboat
The linked page lists many boats and gives brief descriptions of each as well a stheir appropriate web links.
The whole site is well worth a read through as it's full of good information.
Brian

 

[Barquito]

That is a great list! Good info on that website. Thank you.

 

[defrich]

MacGregor bashfest?

As I was the only one who I saw posted 'MacGregor'. Perhaps you would clarify your statment.

 

[JohnRPollard]

As I was the only one who I saw posted 'MacGregor'. Perhaps you would clarify your statment.

I suspect he was just referring to a tendency sometimes seen on this forum for folks to make comments about the rough-weather and sailing capability of some MacGregor models. I think he did not intend to imply anything negative about MacGregors, instead he was hoping to preempt the usual gratuitous comments by refocussing the conversation on trailering. Let's hope he succeeded.

So, congrats on your new boat and how many more days until delivery? (Who's counting right? )

P.S. Back on topic, I'm a fan of that tough little PSC25 (if headroom isn't important to you). Another good candidate for the O.P. might be the Tartan 27, a full-keel/centerboarder. Pretty tough to tow without a truck or Suburban, though.

 

[defrich]

MacGregor

Peace be with you John.
Blue Skies....Richard

 

[OdayDave]

I sailed from Milwaukee to White Lake, then to Pentwater and then back to Milwaukee on a Precision 23. We motored over due to lack of wind, and had a great sail (2-3 foot waves during the day, and 4-5 at night) on the way back. We covered about 70 miles on the return trip. In any case, the optimal size of the boat depends on a lot of factors including the captain/crew and just as important, your schedule. The C22 can certainly handle a lot of rough weather but it may not be comfortable. I would take my O'Day 222 across if I had the right weather window, but I wouldn't want to be in a situation where I had to go on a day when the weather was deteriorating significantly. It's not that I don't think I could handle a lot of situations (I have roller furling on the jib, and two reef points in the main and the boat is setup well for coastal cruising), it's just that it would be uncomfortable at best and you are pushing the envelope a bit if things really get bad. In my opinion, if you want to do this quite frequently, then something in the 25 foot range or bigger would be better (e.g., Catalina 25, O'Day 25 or 26, Seaward 25, etc.). But there is a tradeoff. Launching, retrieving and towing is more of a hassle unless you are on Michigan a lot. If you are flexible on when you cross (both ways), you may want to consider going across with your current boat assuming it is properly equipped. I'm probably going to do that next year with my O'Day. Or, just charter one and go across. Just my two cents.

Dave
O'Day 222

 

[CaptKermie]

I've seen Lake Erie go to blue water style waves quick time from calm. Your pictures of the turmoil are quite informative.
As to a trailerable sailboat for the lake. I have just purchased a 26M from MacGregor ( no personal info as of yet, it gets here ( Long Island ) in 9 days ( but who's counting )). You can check the MacGregor site for a video of a 26M in Gale conditionds. Trailer weight is under 3000 pounds.

Blue Skies...Richard

I don't know where you got the under 3000# quote from but you are very mistaken.
I own a 2003 26M and can assure you the trailered weight is much closer to 4000# especially when you have an engine with two full gas tanks two batteries and all your supplies and provisions. A class 3 tow hitch and vehicle is required along with a longer wheel base.
There is no way a MacGregor will survive the turmoil in those pictures, you'd be a gonner. As far as the video you mention, I have watched it, and even though seeing is believing, few sailors would take a Mac out in gale force winds. Small craft, absolutely, I do it all the time, but when the winds start gusting over 30 knots it is long overdue to head back, I call it quits at 25 knots - 20-25 is on the edge for me but I can still handle it.
Congrats on your new Mac, it will give you years of enjoyment, I am on season 7 with mine and have never looked back, it is a great boat for its' intended venues but ocean going it isn't. I sail the Pacific Northwest.

 

[defrich]

Thank you Capt Kermie,
Truely , the boat empty , weighs <2600 pounds. Add a motor and the weight of the trailor and you are hovering at around 4000 pounds. My bad!
Appreciate your putting things in the proper perspective.
I hope you enjoy your 26M.

Blue Skies.....Richard