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Discussion Starter #1
My 30 foot boat has a Harkin traveler and its quite a pain to use. The crew member has to sit down in the cockpit and bend over to adjust it. Here are some pictures:

Mainsheet Traveler | Jim's Scampi 30 MK-IV Site - Helios

Click on the thumbnails to make the picture bigger.

You can see its mounted low.

I spoke with Guito at Garhauer and he suggested one possible fix was to have a car with the cam cleats on the car instead of the ends of the track. I'm having trouble picturing exactly how that would work, but it seems that you could only then adjust the traveler from the windward side on a beat.

He also pointed out that if I run the line up and put the cleats on the side of the cockpit, it would be easy to adjust from above but hard to adjust from inside the cockpit.

Anyone have any other ideas?

Thanks...
 

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I actually like the looks of your traveller system -- seems like you have plenty of mechanical advantage built in. But if it's not easy to use...

If you want to improve the ergonomics, having the traveller controls on the car is a pretty good suggestion. It's not at all unusual -- tend to see it more often than not on newer boats.

Harken makes a "windward sheeting" version that does not require the operator to ease the lazy control line --it gets released automatically. But even the regular version should be fairly handy to use.

My only other general suggestion is to have the traveller control lines in a contrasting color to the mainsheet.
 

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The control line is too short! You need some slack in it to able to release on one end and pull in the other. The traveler on my 30 ft Cal 9.2 is located where yours is and I have probably and extra 3-5 feet of line to make a loop between the port and stbd cam cleats. I have the cam cleats on the side of the cockpit coaming. Easy to adjust while sitting on the windward side when going upwind.
 

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I've the same set up with my Garhauer traveler but the cam cleats face aft and not at an angle, Also my lines are way way long and easily reach the helm and beyond for single handing I added cam cleats on top of the coaming port and starboard of the helm.
 

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I rigged my Cal 9.2 with a 3 to 1 purchase with cam cleat on the side of the cockpit to allow the crew to be sitting on the high side when they play the traveler in a blow. A 4 to 1 purchase would have been more appropiate in heavy air. I priced the Garhauer cabin top traveler and dream of moving it someday. I realize the extra stress it will place on the boom. Have any 9.2 owners do this??
 

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I have the exact same Harken setup as you do, and actually spent part of my day looking at what Harken has to offer since the control blocks on the center car of my setup are damaged. BTW, instead of a continuous line, mine is set up with separate lines (color coded) for each side. I also find it hard to operate, but the lines are old and could be thinner, and as I said, the control blocks are bent.

It looks to me like Harken makes a kit that will allow you to retrofit your setup to the windward sheeting version. One concern I have about that setup (which otherwise looks nice) is that in light air, or when on the mooring, the traveler can release accidentally (basically when things are flopping around), so they suggest tying it down when on the mooring or also installing some cam cleats on the coaming. Does anyone have experience with this setup?
 

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I agree with Jim'sCal that the biggest problem is that your traveler line is too short. It should be long enough so that a crew member on the coaming can hold it in his/her hand and adjust it from there... I'd say you're about 8 feet too short to make that setup usable in any convenient way.

That's an easy inexpensive thing to try first before you spend more money on what's already a decent setup otherwise!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for the advise everyone, its very interesting. I agree the line is way too short. But, a person sitting on the windward side has to pull the line on the windward side toward the lee side to bring the traveler up.

So during a tack, I typically have one guy on the lee side trimming the head sail, and the guy on the windward side hauling the traveler.

Would the longer lines help with this, even though the cleat to windward points to the lee side and not up?

Does anyone have any pictures of a traveler car with cleats on it?
 

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Does anyone have any pictures of a traveler car with cleats on it?

Harken: Windward Sheeting Travelers
The Harken Windward Sheeting Car is great for racing and the good new is you already have a Harken Track. It's possible that you may be able to turn your Harken mainsheet traveler car into a windward sheeting car. Windward sheeting adapter kits are available to turn standard Harken cars into windward sheeting cars.


I'd call Harken direct on this, they have a very good technical staff. Show him the Traveler 3 photo from your original post.

Note, when making up the Traveler Line, start with a line that is long enough to have the Traveler all the way to Leeward and the Trimmer hiking out to Windward. The Traveler is a very important control and you want it to be easy and convenient to adjust.
 

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Just a thought... those track-end cam cleats are usually free to swivel.... are yours just seized? and maybe could be freed up - that would help.

Alternatively remove them and install new cam cleats on the inside of the coaming in a place that the trimmer can reach. You may need a fairlead or a padeye to redirect the line from the track to the new cleats. Don't put padeyes behind the cam cleats, as is sometimes done to keep the line ready to cleat with a tug.. unfortunately that also makes it impossible to "flick" the leeward line out of the cleat from the weather side of the cockpit.
 

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You need to make that line longer. I have my main sheet line that short, but I have the harken windward carr, ie bottom pic from bhienz's post, so I so not have the cleats where you do, they are on the car itself. I just have to pull the line to go to windward, or lift up the line going into the carr and the line will release to leeward. ALong with a 4-1 advantage.

I am more and more realizing, you scampi and my 30' Jeanneau seem to have similar shapes, gear etc.
Marty
 

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Skip the last block on your end caps. The one that turns it into the cleat, just bypass it. Mount a turning block at the base of the coaming that lines up with the tail end of your traveler. Then run the line to a cleat that is mounted towards the top of the coaming. This is a common set up on J24s, j22s, merits, ect. Keeps the same purchase and makes it easy for you or your crew to adjust the traveler in puffs without having to leave the rail. Crew in the cockpit is only helpful when you blasting downwind. Otherwise, keep the fatties out of there.
 

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I took a couple of pics of our setup this weekend.. we can adjust the traveller from inside the cockpit or from the rail depending how many crew or what the situation is as to where people are sitting.


The other side is symmetrical, of course.. here we adjust from within the cockpit, I can reach it from the helm (just) if need be, else the admiral gets it..



Here the lead is switched to a second pair of cam cleats on top of the coaming where a crew sitting to windward could reach it. The adjusting tackle has enough extra to facilitate "flipping" it out of the leeward cleat to make adjustments if necessary. btw - for this reason we don't put traps on or fairleads behind the cam cleats.

We mostly sail with just two so rarely use the outer cleats, but this setup is kinda clever and versatile....
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Wow, lots of great comments, thanks to everyone! I really like the way Faster has his set up. It's what I was trying to picture in my head. I also like the Harkin windward sheeting car. Bheintz, does that little car reliably uncleat the lee side after a tack? How much mechanical advantage does it provide?

I'll call Harkin about it. I'm also wondering how it works down wind.

The Harkin car is nifty, but the setup Faster has is simple and looks like it would be hard pressed to fail.

It looks like with either system I could keep my existing track. Or, worst case, just get a new piece of track, some end caps and a car.

Decisions decisions...
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Traveler Systems

This site has several set-ups....I like he 3 to 1 remote cleat
That's a great option as well. If the top cleats and fairleads are mounted very securely, this would allow someone to haul the traveler to windward from the lee side if necessary, although they could not cleat it from down there.

That would be possible with the windward traveler car as well, if I used a continuous line and ran them through swivel blocks mounted where the cam cleats are on the 3:1 remote cleat system. You could not uncleat it from down there but that's much less of a concern.

Oh, someone asked if the cleats on my existing traveler swivel. They don't.
 

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Are you sure the cleats aren't just jammed? As I said, I have the identical Harken equipment, and mine will swivel some -- perhaps by 45 degrees or so. Doesn't solve all of the issues you have raised, but in the meantime it would help.

If you end up getting the windward sheeting car, please post a followup review. I'm curious to hear some first hand accounts.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Are you sure the cleats aren't just jammed? As I said, I have the identical Harken equipment, and mine will swivel some -- perhaps by 45 degrees or so. Doesn't solve all of the issues you have raised, but in the meantime it would help.

If you end up getting the windward sheeting car, please post a followup review. I'm curious to hear some first hand accounts.
Im headed down there now, I'll check the swivel. But I recall they are pretty tight. If I get the car, I'll post a review, but I may not do anything before the season is up.
 

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In 35+ years of sailing I've never found the perfect main traveller system. If you have the cleats on the coaming it's hard to cleat from leeward. Your system is hard to cleat and has friction losses from sitting on the rail. If you have cleats on the traveller car it is awkward to use if sitting to leeward on a light day.( I must say that I have n ever used Harken's windward cleating system,but they generally do a good product-I have no affiliation with them) How I have my boat set up suits my sailing conditions. ie: we live in a windy part of the world so working the traveller whilst hiking is a priority.

Having said all that I really like the look of the system Faster shows us. It is simple, versatile and looks robust enough ( a pretty good combination). I will be thinking how to adapt that system to suit my boat.

Faster, if ever you are in West Australia I owe you a rum & coke for that.
 

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...Faster, if ever you are in West Australia I owe you a rum & coke for that.
You're on!.... thanks (but I'm afraid it'll be a while before we'll collect on that one... on the other hand you never know!!
 
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