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Discussion Starter #1
Now that I have some ASA (101/103) training under my belt, I'm formulating the budget my first-boat wish list.
For the budget, I'm being mindful of the peripheral costs such as initial repairs/upgrades, insurance, slip fees, recurring maintenance and wear and tear items. Once I can get my head wrapped around this, I'll feel more comfortable assigning a purchase price for our boat which will ultimately be a 30'-35' racer/cruiser suitable for weekend adventures on Ches. Bay.

My maintenance list includes:
Diesel aux engine
Winches
Bottom painting
Topside painting
Ext. britework

My wear and tear items list includes:
Head sail
Main sail
Running rigging

What am I missing?
 

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Salty, This is an exciting time for you, Congrats!

Regarding the Maintenance list, I really wouldn't know where to begin, filling in the blanks. Everything on a boat requires maintenance. Beside the basics that you outlined, it will also depend on how many systems you have on board. On a boat the size you're talking about, you'll have a head, a range, maybe a stove. Refrigeration? A water heater, a fresh water system etc. Electronics, like auto pilots, wind vanes, depth finders. Through hulls, and seacocks need attention, hoses etc. Canvas, like a dodger and maybe a Bimini. Will you want a Winter cover? A dinghy and a motor. Some of these items may not require as regular a maintenance schedule like changing the oil and fuel filters, but sooner or later they all need attention and $$ Buying a boat that has been well maintained and has good bones, will allow you to enjoy it and perhaps budget some of the inevitable wish-list items.

Pick up Don Casey's book: These Books should help expand your list, and are great references

Don Casey's Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual: Including Inspecting the Aging Sailboat, Sailboat Hull and Deck Repair, Sailboat Refinishing, Sailbo: Casey, Don: 9780071462846: Amazon.com: Books

And maybe a Nigel Calder:


Best if Luck and Hope you have many years of Great Sailing!

and look up Maine Sail's Website: Compass Marine

 

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Tempest is right, there is an unknown longer list, depending on what you buy.

The only big item I did not see on your short list, that has a limited lifespan, is the standing rigging.

If your hoping to limit maintenance, I'd find a boat that did not have or require topside painting. Once painted, always painted. Buffing and waxing gelcoat is much less expensive and DIY.
 
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Boats have a lot of systems - electrical, electronic, plumbing, etc. There is always something that needs attention. Be prepared to learn a lot.
 

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I have managed fleets before, not boats but have managed a single boat for a group of owners. Using my fleet management background I estimated the cost of maintaining an Ericson 32 in San Diego to average $12k/year. I did the math about 6 years ago factoring doing most of the work yourself. This factored in a replacement of big ticket items on a scheduled basis.

The math can show it only cost $8-9k/year but the first time you need a new mainsail or engine and don't have a reserve account or can't pull $5k or more out to keep your boat safely afloat with a reliable motor and decent sails.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Salty, This is an exciting time for you, Congrats!
Thank you. It's exciting and a little scary. Thank you for your in-depth answer.
Originally I was speaking only of those regularly scheduled maintenance items necessary to keep the boat seaworthy and moving forward. The kind of stuff that leads to dereliction when not attended to. Not really concerning myself (yet) with optional "luxuries" such as rangetop, stove, refrigeration, water heater or auto pilot.
But your point is well taken and appreciated.
I did just receive Don Casey's Complete Sailboat Maintenance book. Also the Inspecting the Aging Sailboat and Sailboat Refinishing books. Those last two are getting returned though because I didn't realize the Complete Maintenance book was so "Complete" that it included the two. I have This Old Boat in transit.

I will certainly study the other info you suggested.

The only big item I did not see on your short list, that has a limited lifespan, is the standing rigging.

If your hoping to limit maintenance, I'd find a boat that did not have or require topside painting. Once painted, always painted. Buffing and waxing gelcoat is much less expensive and DIY.
I didn't add standing rigging because I figured (perhaps incorrectly?) that would be considered much longer tern lifespan.
But then again, so are sails if treated well?
Topside paint... I see your point. I guess a typical production fiberglass deck wouldn't need painting like the hull would.

Boats have a lot of systems - electrical, electronic, plumbing, etc. There is always something that needs attention. Be prepared to learn a lot.
I've been maintaining saltwater reef tanks for almost 20 yrs and have learned more about all of the stuff you mention than I ever could have imagined in the beginning. Why do all of the "vanity project" sailing Youtube channels make it looks so footloose and fancy-free? Ha ha.
I have managed fleets before, not boats but have managed a single boat for a group of owners. Using my fleet management background I estimated the cost of maintaining an Ericson 32 in San Diego to average $12k/year. I did the math about 6 years ago factoring doing most of the work yourself. This factored in a replacement of big ticket items on a scheduled basis.

The math can show it only cost $8-9k/year but the first time you need a new mainsail or engine and don't have a reserve account or can't pull $5k or more out to keep your boat safely afloat with a reliable motor and decent sails.
Now that is info I can chew on! Thank you for answering a question I was hesitant to ask.
Am I assuming correctly this estimate would not include those pesky insurance and slip fees?
All of you have been such a big help. My wife and sons keep coming to me with glossy options that fit our budget but I have to be the one that considers these ugly thoughts. Ha ha. I'm fully on-board with our family plan. I just want to do it with eyes wide open.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
electrical, electrical, electrical, oh and ....................... electrical

head hoses, head, water pump, electrical, electrical
I hate electrical. To me it seems to be voodoo. Ohms, capacitors, voltage vs. amps, resistance... it all makes my head spin.
 

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Now that is info I can chew on! Thank you for answering a question I was hesitant to ask.
Am I assuming correctly this estimate would not include those pesky insurance and slip fees?
All of you have been such a big help. My wife and sons keep coming to me with glossy options that fit our budget but I have to be the one that considers these ugly thoughts. Ha ha. I'm fully on-board with our family plan. I just want to do it with eyes wide open.
Yes it includes all of those things. Those thing you mention are easy to calculate. Call the marina and insurer and ask how much, factor in bottom cleaning and you get $6-8 grand. Then add in bottom paint every 3 years, standing rigging every 10 years, new sails every 6 years, new motor when needed, you come up with $12k/year. There is a lot of variables like where you live, slip fees winter haul out and storage, etc, but a new motor or suit of sails are roughly the same no matter where you live. The key to not blowing your budget on year one is to buy the right boat to begin with. Buy one with all the things you want in a boat, upgrading to something like a roller furler or reparing a problem boat would be a budget killer.

The smart way to do it if you can afford it is to put $1000 in the bank each month, pay the boat expenses out of it. When the boat needs a big expense the money should be there.

It must suck to have all this pressure from the family to buy a sailboat, my heart goes out to you.
 

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Recurring maintenance costs are:
annual or bi annual bottom paint
annual replacement of zinc
annual (clean &) wax hull
annual clean teak or renew varnish
annual lube winches and windlass
engine oil & filter change per mfg instructions
annual winterizing (climate dependent)

periodic replacement / service
plumbing hoses, filters, impellers, hose clamps
electrical wire, connectors

infrequent service/replacement
lamping-bulbs
anchor chain
running rigging
sails
life lines
canvas, upholstery
interior varnish
navigation equipment
 

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Hey,

Good for you for trying to get a handle on things.

On my boat I use a lot of lists. Let's start with my winterization list. My boat is on the Long Island sound. For me, the sailing season ends in November. One year I have the boat hauled and stored on land, the next year I store in water.

Here is my winterization list (From 2019-2020). The boat was hauled in October that year.

Engine:
Fill Fuel Tank and add fuel treatment
Winterize Raw Water.
Change Oil & Filter
Change coolant (I didn't get that done, I usually change coolant every 4 years or so)

Interior
Remove food, drink from galley all done 10/19
Drain and winterize fresh water tank
Drain & Bypass water heater
winterize holding tank and head
Winterize sump


Exterior
Remove sails
Sails washed / inspected
Remove Dodger
Bring home sheets
Sheets washed


Gear to bring home
B&G plotter
Remote mic

Misc:
Boat shrink wrapped
Bring home OB
Run in fresh water
Fuel Stabilizer


In the spring I start on my boat work list. Here is the list from last year:
Work to Do:
1. Exterior
Repair transom microswitch
Sand hull
Bottom Paint
Wash and wax topsides
wash and wax decks
Install dodger

2. Powertrain
Saildrive zincs installed
Prop cleaning
Paint Prop + Leg
Clean engine compartment
Seal Exhaust through transom
Test run engine

3. Rig
Install back stay adjuster
Clean and lube all blocks
Clean and lube furler
Bend on sails
Service winches

4. Interior
Bilge - repair / replace hose for manual pump
Correct fresh water pump
Sump Pump - fix electric
Clean interior, treat for mold and mildew

5. Electronics:
Install plotter. Done 5/20


I also keep and ongoing maintenance list.

Here is a few years worth of entries. I have removed prices and other personal information
2018
Dec 1, sails to Doyle for washing and inspection
Nov 9 Moved to Slip B11 (see winterization)
Nov 7 Fill diesel (16 gallons at $3.99 / gal)
Sept 2 Remove steaming light bulb
Aug 10 Clean Bottom
May 31 New steaming light. New cam cleat on mast for pole lift. SONAR XDucer installed
May 25 Interior washed
May 23 Speakers mounted. Decks washed. Water system commissioned
May 21 Sails bent on. Steaming light broken by flogging head sail
May 20 Dodger installed. Wind instrument connected. Mast lights connected.
May 16 Boat launched
May 6 - paint bottom, prop
May 3 - sand waterline (2 hours) wash topsides (1 hour)
May 2 - remove shrinkwrap, wash decks
Apr 21 - sand hull 3 hours done (except for waterline)
Apr 20 - sand hull 2 hours
Apr 9 - sand hull - 3 hours. Starboard ⅔ done
Feb 2 - New Standing Rigging New whisker pole topping lift
2017
Dec 8 Remove standing rigging with Jame B.
Nov 15 Boat winterized - water tank, engine, head, holding tank
Nov 12 - sails removed. Boat prepped to be hauled
June 22 - Halyard swivel replaced by JB
June 15 - temp repair of halyard swivel with shackle
June 14 Bottom cleaned by Pete T. Not too bad - just some slime
June 8 Halyard Swivel broke during spring 4 race. Finished bare headed
May 26 - Repair exhaust hose output w fiberglass and epoxy. R+R water tank elbow. Test sonar. Need to mount and run wire
May 17 Pete T dives boat and cleans bottom. Growth was terrible. Zinc is OK
May 15 water tank is empty. Must be leaking
April 22 Install OB and test run. All is well. Tie old p/u stick to mooring ball
Apr 17 - Drop OB at Ozzy for fuel shutoff repair. Ozzy - All Island Marine (631) 476-0622
Apr 13-14 bend on sails, install backstay adjuster, commission water system, clean and paint speed impeller, fill propane tank, wash decks
Apr 6 Mount solar controller.
April 3 Test run engine - perfect
Mar 08 Install Go Power! GP-ECO-20 Eco Series Solar System - 20 Watt
Feb 22 Installed batteries.
Feb 20 -bought 1 Interstate 27DC from costco for $80+tax, 2 Interstate GC2 ECL UTL batteries for $141 each + tax from Interstate Battery System in Bohemia.
Jan 26 - all three batteries are dead
Jan 25 - mooring permit paid for and receved
Jan 5 - paid for new headsail (brought home main and both headsails)

2016
Nov 12 - winterize boat - see sep sheet
Nov 2 - removed dink OB and winterized it.
Oct 29 - Moved boat to slip for winter (B-12). Filled diesel tank at MSYC
Oct 18 - Order new headsail - Doyle Fiberlay 135. .
Oct 14 - new bird spikes installed by JB. Spent 2 hours cleaning bird poop
Sep 3 Prep for TS Hermine
Sept 2 - R+R compass.
Aug 11 - Bottom cleaned by Kevin. Extra anchor rode removed
Aug 1 - new Raymarine wind transducer installed by JB
July 24 - replace cabin lights - one over galley, one in head. Two reading lights, one relocated to V Berth
July 4 - connect grounds for mast lights. All work now
June ? New water pump and alt bolt - done by Skip
June 13 - Install Spartite
June 10 - Reeve new main sheet (Sampson XLS) and cam cleat
May 21 - sails on. Water tank in service.Boat ready to be sailed.
May 20 - boat splashed
May 19 - Clean nonskid. Awlwash topsides. Awlcare on most of top sides
May 15 test run dink engine
May 5 - paint under stands. Paint dink.
April 30 - paint bottom Ultima SR 40 (need to do under stands), install prop, install paddlewheel
April 29 - Paint speed transducer, install head hatch lens, tape water line
April 28 - wash decks (poor), topsides (OK), scrub bottom. Ready for paint
April 20 - finish sanding bottom - under pads, keel, etc. 2 hours. ,
April 10 - Sand bottom, prop, hub (3 hours)
April 9 - Sand bottom and saildrive (3 hours)
March 29: remove shrinkwrap
March 16 RS35 installed. MMSI set.
Marc 10 - New RS35 received. Need to program MMSI number
Feb 29 - Return RS 35 to Navico - channel knob broken. RMA I370184
Feb 28 Charge batteries
Jan 22 shrink wrap
Jan 13 Paid $150 for mooring permit
Jan 8, Final payment for Dodger and for Sail cover
Jan 8 Skip starts saildrive service. Leg removed.
Jan 8 - returned RS35 to Navico for FW upgrade RMA I357256
Jan 2016 Boat covered by Skip

hope this helps
 

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I didn't add standing rigging because I figured (perhaps incorrectly?) that would be considered much longer tern lifespan.
But then again, so are sails if treated well?
Topside paint... I see your point. I guess a typical production fiberglass deck wouldn't need painting like the hull would.
Standing rigging is a bit variable, depending on how it's been used, cared for, etc. In the EU, I believe one is required to replace it every 10 years. That's recommended by the manufacturers in the US, but few do it. Rather they have it routinely inspected afterward and I'd bet replacement is more in the 15 yr range. Your insurance company, however, may insist on follow manufacturer recommendations.

Sails are also variable. 5-10 years is a good range for less than a full time cruiser.

Why do all of the "vanity project" sailing Youtube channels make it looks so footloose and fancy-free? Ha ha.
Because they don't publish the days they are swearing and kicking things around the boat. That doesn't sell clicks and subscriptions. :)
 
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Discussion Starter #13
Yes it includes all of those things..
Very helpful. Thank you.

It must suck to have all this pressure from the family to buy a sailboat, my heart goes out to you.
Ha ha... life is tough but somebody has to shoulder this burden.
But seriously, this is a group effort that we are all looking forward to. It's just up to me to make sure we stay even-keeled. Now and once we're on the water.

Recurring maintenance costs are:
...

infrequent service/replacement
...
Thank you.

On my boat I use a lot of lists.
hope this helps
As a fellow lover of lists... this is incredibly helpful!!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
One year I have the boat hauled and stored on land, the next year I store in water.
Is there a reason for this other than personal preference/circumstances?
Guessing maybe that perhaps it would be the following Spring that you would do bottom paint?
 

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Usually less expensive to store in the water. Some don’t like the pressure of the stands against their hull on land. However, staying in the water doesn’t allow for things to dry out or to do annual bottom and drive train maintenance. In water, in freezing temps, has a couple more obstacles, but it’s done.
 

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Is there a reason for this other than personal preference/circumstances?
Guessing maybe that perhaps it would be the following Spring that you would do bottom paint?
Some of this depends on where you are also. In San Diego we pulled the boat once in 3 year for maintenance and bottom paint. I would guess this same holds for all the West Coast up into Canada and the South East states. If you live in temperate climate how often you pull and paint depends on bottom growth pattern.
 

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Hi,

The bottom paint I use (Pettit Ultima SR60 (or SR40, which ever is available) lasts for two years on the Long Island sound. So after two years in the water I get the boat hauled and it spends the winter on land. In the spring I remove the old bottom paint and apply fresh. I also wash and wax the topsides.

The advantages of spending the winter in the water:
-Less expensive - less than 1/2 the price of hauling and storing on land
-I can put the boat in the slip any time I like and I can go sailing in the spring as soon as I am ready.
-I think boats do better floating in water than sitting on stands

Advantages of wintering in land:
-You can work on the bottom, topside, prop, etc.
-You don't need to worry about the boat sinking, freezing, etc.

Disadvantages of in water
-Can't service, inspect the bottom, can't bottom paint, install new zincs, etc.
-Worry about storms, freezing water, sinking, lines breaking, etc.

Disadvantage of on land
-Must be hauled at a certain date (usually earlier than I like)
-Can't get boat launched on demand - must wait for other boats to get splashed first

Barry

Is there a reason for this other than personal preference/circumstances?
Guessing maybe that perhaps it would be the following Spring that you would do bottom paint?
 

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Now that I have some ASA (101/103) training under my belt, I'm formulating the budget my first-boat wish list.
For the budget, I'm being mindful of the peripheral costs such as initial repairs/upgrades, insurance, slip fees, recurring maintenance and wear and tear items. Once I can get my head wrapped around this, I'll feel more comfortable assigning a purchase price for our boat which will ultimately be a 30'-35' racer/cruiser suitable for weekend adventures on Ches. Bay.

My maintenance list includes:
Diesel aux engine
Winches
Bottom painting
Topside painting
Ext. britework

My wear and tear items list includes:
Head sail
Main sail
Running rigging

What am I missing?
If you have to ask, you may not be able to afford it.

[EDIT]The rest of this post has been deleted.
 

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Looks like you're getting quite a list from the replies. I'll add one more thing that I didn't see mentioned...drive train. By that I mean PSS seal or stuffing box maintenance/ replacement, cutless bearing replacement, etc. These are items that don't need to be done frequently, but often the job opens a can of worms. On both of my boats, I had to also replace the coupling and the prop shaft when I did the PSS seal.

From my experience on our sailboats, I end up spending more time and dollars maintaining the engine, transmission, and drive train than anything else on the boat. Always thought this was kind of funny on a boat powered mainly with sails.
 
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